End Of My Rope

[2hartsas1]

:mad: victor pulled out of his 7 a.m. surgery time at 6 a.m. this morning. :mad:
i am sorry i took up everyones time and emotion. i am angry with him, and tired. we had the bast team of docs. everything was going good. i know in my own heart it would have been sucssesful.
i really am at the end of my rope with this. from a medical standpoint-he has less than a year left and it will be at very poor quality.
so i guess i get to sit around and watch that happen too. :mad:
~shirley

[Ross]

Shirley all you can do is lead the horse to the water, you can't force him to drink it. I do hope the Doctors are jumping all over him about it. I don't know what else to tell you. He obviously is not interested in helping himself whatsoever. Perhaps you shouldn't either. I know that's mean to say, but I think you've done more then enough.

Your not taking up our time or our emotions, so don't even think like that. I wish I had a huge board to knock his lights out with. He's being absolutely ridiculous.

The man has a death wish that appears will be granted soon. I'm so sorry that your chained to it. I think it's time for Tough Love Shirley to be born!

[Nancy]

Dear Victor-

You must be very afraid of this surgery. You know without it, you will not live long, right? Years ago, people with these kinds of conditions just died, there was nothing that could be done for them. Then in the 70s valve surgery developed and started saving lives immediately. My husband was one of the lucky ones then. He would surely have died, but in 1977, he had his first valve surgery. The mechanical valve that was implanted then is still in him and working.

In spite of your fears, this surgery is highly perfected. The surgeons who do it are absolute experts in what they do. Everything you have wrong inside your heart, they have no doubt seen before and can fix.

I know right now, you are probably being bombarded with emotions from all angles. I won't beat you up for being frightened.

But I would like to point out to you that as your valve disease continues to deteriorate, you will not be feeling well at all. You will be increasingly short of breath because your damaged heart just cannot keep up with your body's demands for bloodflow, and your lungs won't be able to supply enough oxygen. You may then become totally bedridden, and your body systems will start to fail. It is not a pleasant way to go. I've seen my husband approaching this circumstance a few times and it was very, very scary, for me to watch and for him as he could feel his body slipping little by little.

You have an opportunity here to turn this all around. You have the possibility of a long life ahead of you. You have a wife who loves you dearly. She has told us here that fact many times.

You have many friends here who are worrying about you, even though you don't know any of them. You'd be surprised at how many have been following your progress,and have been hoping that you would get the help that will save your life.

I know that you don't like medical stuff, and all of the fussing around that has to be done. It's true there will be some pain and some uncomfortableness involved. It's temporary though, and it is survivable.

If your heart condition could take your life without doing anything about it, why not give yourself the wonderful gift of life.

I am really hoping that you will rethink things and make the decision to go for it.

We love you Victor and we want you to live, for yourself, for your wife and for the rest of your family. You only come this way once, don't cut your life short. You never know how much you can accomplish in the future. You will HAVE a future if you decide to get your heart fixed up.

GO FOR IT, VICTOR, you're worth it!!

God Bless.

[Marge]

Shirley, I've been following this saga even though I haven't posted before in any of your threads. Just wanted you to know I really admire YOU.

What you are going through is tough. I have a friend who's had something of the same types of problems with her husband. He was supposed to have a CABG a couple of weeks ago & pulled out of the surgery a day or two before it was scheduled. She (my friend) is in despair. He says he is "feeling fine." The docs say he is a walking time bomb to have a major heart attack any time.

I hope Victor reads Nancy's eloquent and thorough comments. If he does, and isn't convinced, I don't know what could persuade him.

As for you, Shirley, Ross is right -- you cannot forever carry the responsibility.

Both of you have my prayers. Take care.

[Les]

Victor,
Been there twice and thankful to still be here. Easy and painless? Hell no...but what, that's worth anything in life is? Listen to your heart...she is sitting right next to you. Wishing you the best..

[xtremlee]

Hey Im 10 days post op. If he has a-fib tell him its worth the surgery just to get rid of that monster. I had a valve and a maze which Im sure is what they were going to do to him. Easy no Worth it Sure.

[2hartsas1]

just wanted to stop and say thank you. each of you. i appreciate each one of your thoughts. everything was so perfect this time. he had everyone here cheering him on, people from my hepatitis 'home' by the gazillions praying for him, people-FRIENDS (the kind you spell "f-a-m-i-l-y") whom he never even met in houston, TOOK OFF WORK TODAY to come and pray with me and be there, not just for me but for HIM as well!!!! all of his genetic family was there at the hospital.....from out of town.......
everyone-so many pulling for him.....to me, it seems a sad sad state.
we have all tried, docs too, to explain to him what his decision is going to offer him.....he just cant see past it. he is truly making fear based decisions.....leaves me to wonder where his faith is.
i have completely forgotten to take care of myself for a week now and i am in bad shape because of it. at one point i was having to be wheeled around the hospital because i could no longer stand up. i have come close to being hospitalized myself this week and honestly, as much as i love my sweet victor....i have to start thinking of myself.
i will continue to come here (and i will make sure victor reads his posts-thank you all so very very much) and read and i may post sometimes, but will mostly try to stay out of the way. but i will keep everyone current on his situation-however it goes from here.
you have all been so wonderful and i guess i just want to say thank you all-again.
much love and appreciation,
~shirley

[Glenda]

Shirley my heart goes out for you. Just between you and me, men are so hard headed. My husband is the same way. He'll wait until something really gets bad before he will do anything about it. Tell Victor he will not get better on his own. Now I'm speaking from experience. In the very near future I have to have a AVR. The cardio wanted to do it last year and I put it off because I really didn't feel that bad. Now I have CML (chronic myeloid leukemia) along with diabetes and my counts have gone up once more so now I have to wait until they go down before I can have the surgery. If I would have had it done last summer when the cardio wanted to do it, I would be over the mountain and on the way to recovery.

I sincerely believe that God won't help us if we won't help ourselves. So tell Victor to not wait until it's too late. You need him, his family needs him. These wonderful people on this site need him and want to see the best for him.

Remember to take care of yourself too. I'll remember you and Victor in my prayers everyday.

[suz]

Gosh, Shirley, I am so sorry you are going through this right now. As a family member of a heart patient (with a successful VR at 75) I can just feel the stress and despair. I thought I was going to really loose it when my Dad was opposed to getting a second opinion. He didn't want any question marks when it came to the surgery. I couldn't and still can't understand that mindset, but what I did do was look into the doc who was to do the surgery's credentials and was happy to find that he was well qualified. I went through many weeks of being beside myself with worry and concern.

Others here have offered some excellent input. I guess my advice to you would be to focus on your own health right now. I know first hand that you can't be clear minded and be a help to others if you don't take care of number one.

My heart goes out to you. Perhaps Victor needs to get involved in a heart patient support group to gain the confidence to move forward with this surgery.

My dad, at 75, has had many active, world travelling, enjoying life years behind him but he has many, many ahead too, thanks to the marvels of modern medicine.

I did alot of research prior to my Dad's surgery and found lots of articles that indicated the benefits of a positive mental attitude going into surgery. Perhaps this should be the focus, at this point, to get Victory back on track. Here is a wonderful link to the subject of guided imagery which Nancy shared with me some months ago, which allows the patient to take a proactive, positive with a level of control, approach to surgery,

http://www.guidedimageryinc.com/guided.html

best,
suz

[Nancy]

Shirley-

I have one more thing to say and then I'll shut up.

Victor-

I would hate to think you died a silly cowardly death. People would say afterwards, "you know, Victor could have lived a long life, but he was so afraid, he just became emotionally paralyzed. He could have helped himself, but couldn't"

Get the darned surgery done, get it over with, move on with your life. Live a HERO. You will have enjoyment of life in your future, you will have the love of family and friends. Do what you have to do to get over this hump, get some medication, talk to a shrink, whatever works.

[dawnwit15]

Shirley
I'm in tears right now reading your post. I truly think that Victor has let fear completely take over at this point. Please tell him we were all terrified prior to surgery. I almost did the walk out too but I stuck it out, not for myself but for my family. You are in my prayers. All you can do at this point is continue to love him.
Victor
I know how scared you are. I'm not going to lie, I was terrified too. Please realize, the surgery is over before you know it. Do you really want to risk your life by not having surgery. If not for yourself please do it for Shirley, she loves you dearly and will be there to support you through recovery. Don't be afraid to get some counseling to help cope with your fears. I did it, and I'm so happy I did. There is nothing to be ashamed of. There is so much to live for, please reconsider and re-schedule your surgery.
Dawnwit15

[tommy]

Victor,

Face your fear head on. Do what needs to be done despite the fear. What is the worst that could happen?

[Karlynn]

Shirley,
I feel so badly for you. I remember so many times hearing my Mom tell my Dad that he needed to remember that he wasn't just living for himself and that when he made bad choices it wasn't just himself he was hurting. (My Dad had Type 2 diabetes with many major complications, as well as heart disease. He just refused to watch what he ate.)

You need to take care of yourself. Victor has made his decision (which if he's not a coward, he will change.) but do not let that decision take you down too. You are YOUNG! Life is to be lived to the fullest and appreciated in big and small ways.

You both will be in my prayers.

[hensylee]

my early a.m. post went awry so I will post again:

Shirley - I figured 3rd time was the charm - wrong..........You are just going to have to follow this road on to the end and that looks like where it's going doesn't it. You are suffering, I guess you feel (unnecessarily) embarrassed; bet you are ANGRY as you know what, and I bet you see no way out. We understand where others might not. He is so scared or he'd go through with it. The only way it is going to happen at this point is when he finally goes to the ER, is unconscious, and a family member can make the decision while he's 'out'. With every delay, Victor becomes more panicked and I don't believe he will ever consent again. So, Shirley, you are carrying this load all by yourself, but you have dozens of us who are walking along with you and we are here to listen when you need to unload for awhile. Please remember that when you feel down....Love Ann

[Bryan B]

Shirley,

My heart goes out to you!!! I am a recovering alcoholic (14 yrs), and until I decided that I wanted to help myself it didn't matter what my loved ones or anyone else said to convince me to stop. I guess it's kind of the same for Victor.

Victor,

I hope you stop being selfish (others love you and want you to live) and get over your fears before it's too late and the damage to your heart is beyond repair.

Good luck to both of you!

[RCB]

Last time I looked, a sane adult person has a constitutional right to make a medical decision about ones own life, even
if spouse thinks it's wrong. Nobody here know the demons
in this person's mind. Shirley, it is a tough thing to do, but try to understand him. As for the rest of this forum that wants to belittle this poor soul by name calling, I see it as despicable and not very helpful. Only by understanding his fears, perhaps by a professional,will he change his mind- but the decision is his. I doubt he will be cowed by people here, making hasty remarks about his character- I hope we are better then that here! I for one, would be willing to listen and affirm this man.

[2hartsas1]

as i post this, victor is out on the patio, smoking his pipe.
i dont think there is much else to say to that sort of behavior.
demons RCB? yes, there are many. i know it and he knows it. but to have so very little belief in SOMETHING, ANYTHING, so as to let onesself self destruct.....i'm sorry, but i can't get my mind wrapped around that.
his choice is to sit here and die. i am terminally ill and WISH there was something they could do to HELP me!!!!!!
i am just going to love him and try ot enjoy whatever time is left....i dont know what else to do anyway......
~shirley

[RCB]

You need it- get it by calling your local social services.

[perimeno]

Maybe he doesn't want to be alone. Maybe he feels badly that there is no fix for you and he feels selfish having the operation. Well, it's just a thought. How do I know. It was my brother who had AVR. And I kept telling him not to worry, etc., because I was thinking of the positive statistics. I wanted a healthy brother and he was only getting much worse. But let me tell you, if it was me I would have been sooo scared. But maybe if I was feeling just so bad already I could have gone through with it. But, then I might have said well, better to have 5 more months for sure than to die on the operating table. However the operation is usually a success, especially if there are no other medical problems so it is worth it, I think, to take that risk. A few more months when every day you feel worse is not worth it. I just hope Victor is able to accept where he is right now. He must be feeling awful, caught in a trap. And I am sorry to hear of your health Shirley, and all that you are going through on behalf of another. Very stressful.
Peri

[Bryan B]

RCB,

I totally agree that a person has a right to decline medical help. I also have a right to tell him what I think of that decision (and how that decision affects his family) on this forum.

I look back and know that not chickening out of having the surgery despite my fears is one of the greatest accomplishments in my life so far. I'm willing to bet Victor would feel the same way if he faced his fears and went through with this surgery.

[suz]

[QUOTE=RCB] As for the rest of this forum that wants to belittle this poor soul by name calling, I see it as despicable and not very helpful. Only by understanding his fears, perhaps by a professional,will he change his mind- but the decision is his. I doubt he will be cowed by people here, making hasty remarks about his character [QUOTE]

I really don't think that this comment was neccessary. Other points in this post were supportive, but this was not the only post that was inciteful in this thread.

I don't believe that someone who has made a decision to not have a medical procedure that would be life saving would make a decision to see a mental health professional. Most men seem to run from this as far as they can, except for Woody Allen, of course.

Of course everyone has the right to deny medical procedures. Our society does not condone suicide, and it is natural for people to reach out, even if they choose to take a "tough love" approach, which is part of some mental health approaches. We read all the time of people who choose to do something which will lead to their own death and then, at the last moment when out on the ledge, they cry for help, that they do want to live. I pray that Victor makes this cry before it is too late. My mother, who fought a valient fight against cancer and lost, would always say, "today is a beautiful day."

Perhaps it is time for some religious counseling for Victor.

best,
suz

[RCB]

Bryan, nobody said anything about your free speech rights.
What I was addressing was the ad hominem comments impugning someone's motives and judging them to be a lack of bravery when facing a life or death situation. We simply don't know what is in his mind.

Suz,
As to your comment that my comment wasn't "neccessary", well I think it is necessary to point out
that many of the comments on this forum aren't necessary,
but you certainly have the right to single out mine. I may think your whole post was unnecessary, but I'm not sure
anything of value would come about by pointing that out.
However, when name calling becomes the norm on this forum or any other forum, the forum will have a rabid decline. We may disagree, but don't be disagreeable.
Shirley and Victor are a sad case- they need the help of professionals, not the psychoanalysis of Victor's mindset by people who don't have a MD and a residency in psychiatry.
Again, this forum is about helping people- name calling
is not helpful. While it shouldn't be necessary to state that, some times it is.

[suz]

It is your perception that people are name calling. My point was that my perception is tough love. I hardly think that anyone here, where all posters are AVR patients or their loved ones, would be participating in name calling for their own self serving motives. I believe that everyone here cares about Victor, and it is out of this concern, that they have posted as they have.

Perhaps in your world people "name call." They don't in mine. I frankly do disagree with your take on what people have posted. If you find me disagreeable, that is your perception but you might take a moment to look up the word on Websters.com.

[suz]

Shirley,

I just found an article that I wanted to share with you about Mike Ditka's drive to get men to take better care of themselves and not avoiding the doc as men are prone to do. I hope you will share this with Victor. It points to avoiding the doc for mental and cardiovascular health. He feels that he could have avoided the heart attack that he had and wants to help others,

Mike Ditka Tackles Men's Health Issues
It's part of campaign to get men to embrace healthy lifestyle
By Gary Gately
HealthDay Reporter



FRIDAY, October 24 (HealthDayNews) -- Football legend Mike Ditka is pointing straight at you, brow furrowed, looking as intense and as menacing as he did on the sidelines.

This time, it's not just the outcome of a game hanging in the balance, but staying healthy -- and staying alive.


http://www.hon.ch/News/HSN/515704.html

best,
suz

[RCB]

Thank you for your perceptions about the world I live in.
I'm sure you know it only too well!

[suz]

I said "perhaps" in the world you live in.

In a thread where a man's life is hanging in the balance, why would you feel the need to attack other posters here? I have gotten nothing but support from the posters here and your post was the first post where someone lashed out at others.

[2hartsas1]

I Apologize For The Trouble My Coming Here Has Caused. I Have Never Seen Any Squabbles Here Before And Dont Wish To Be The Reason For Any Now.
Victor Has Been The Center Of So Many Unhealthy Relationships In His Family (he Has No Friends Other Than Those Who Know Him Through Me On The Internet) All Of His Life And Unfortunately, I Have Brought His Chaos To This Forum.
I Am Leaving, As There Is No More Reason For Me To Be Here. I Do Not Have A Loved One Who Is Trying To Fight For Their Life. I Have Only A Sad Individual Who Is Causeing More And More Pain Where Ever He Goes, Even Through Me And Even On The Internet.
Thank You All So Much For Caring, For That Is All I Ever Saw Here. I Appreciate The Love And Concern You Have All Shown, But It Is Time For Me To Go. Victor Will Be Victor And All That That Brings With It. I Am Not Going To Make Myself Sick Any More With His Drama.
Thank You All And Know That Just Because I Am Not Here, Doesnt Mean I Am Not Thinking Of You.
~all The Best Always,
~shirley

[RCB]

Suz, Please have the last word- this has become inane.

[suz]

Shirley,

I am so sorry that you feel that Victor caused this disagreement. He didn't. We all have to do what we feel is right, and if you don't feel that you can get support here, I am truly sorry if I have contributed to this. I only have great concern for your situation and for all who have posted here out of deep concern for Victor.

best,
suz

[Ross]

Wow, go away for a little while and things got a bit heated aye? :(

I don't mind people expressing there opinions, but please do not turn it into personal attacks on one another. We can agree to disagree without it getting out of hand can we not? I don't want Shirley or anyone for that matter feeling that they must leave so war doesn't break out.

My first comment can be taken rather heavily I suppose. In my mind, I'm upset with Victor and his decision. In my mind, I can't understand why someone would not fight for his own life, which is after all, what this is in the long run.

Everyone is entitled to do as they wish with their health care. I appologize for my rudeness which is actually anger expressed in written form.

Shirley whatever your decision, I wish you the best of luck and hope that you will return no matter what the situation turns out to be. It's a touchy thing for those of us that have gone through it. I don't know that anyone can express why were reacting the way we are unless they've been there themselves. Sorry.

[Abbanabba]

I have only just read this thread and I must say I am really upset that Shirley feels she has to leave because of the comments made here.

Might I suggest that if people have a difference of opinion that they send a personal message to whomever they have the problem with, rather than bringing unhelpful comments into the thread. One of the great things about this forum is that it does provide a wonderful range of advice, but getting upset with someone who doesn't share your point of view isn't helpful to anyone.

Shirley -
I hope you do come back to the forum - please don't allow other's negativity to push you away. I can't imagine how hard it must be for you to be dealing with everything you are right now.

I only hope that you and Victor can find a way through this tough time. I can't imagine what must be going through his mind right now to choose certain demise over a second chance at life. Surely he is aware of the consequences of his choices, but perhaps a counsellor can help him vocalise his fears and perhaps to overcome them.

My heart goes out to you both.

Anna

[Johnny Stephens]

Shirely, what an incredibly stressful time...for you, for Victor, and for your family and friends. I don't have any magic words, I just hope you can work together to find a way out of this situation that will allow Victor to come to terms with what he needs to do.

Please stick around and let us know how it is going.

Johnny

[Glenda]

Shirley, I agree with Anna.Ross and Johnny. Please don't go away. We need you and you need everyone here. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. We all have our different thoughts on certain things. We have the option to take it or leave it.

If you have read any of my posts, this is my third cancer in four years. This last cancer is terminal. I've always had heart problems, but just this last year my heart got worse. I'm sorry but I felt like Victor. I told my cardio that I would much rather die of an heart attack than this old cancer. But the doctor told me he wasn't ready for me to throw in the towel just yet. So you see, I'm on borrowed time. I have finally decided to have the heart surgery as soon as my leukemia counts go back down. The leukemia was in remission for seven months (that's when I should have had the surgery.) but no, I wanted to wait. I had too much to do. I kept making excuses, now I have to wait.

Shirley, you take care of yourself. Victor needs you. Please let him know that he will be in my prayers daily. (you too)

[2hartsas1]

well....Glenda, i certainly appreciate your post and support and caring as well as everyones here. i just didnt want to be the reason for a heated debate......but.....i do need you all and if nothing else, i will hang around and read and post whenever victor has anything go on....
to be real honest, i am in quite a state right now and his family is hardly speaking to him and well,.....i am not doing too good at it myself just yet. i am trying real hard to get my mind wrapped around this but its hard.
i will be reading, ok?! and i will keep you all up to date!
thank you all so much for caring....
you are all so very appreciated,
~shirley

[Susan BAV]

Hi Shirley and Victor -

I just happened to stumble across this thread. I think the heated debate was probably inspired by passionately-driven desires for the best possible outcome for you both. We don't always say the correct things when we want to help people; I'll probably say the wrong thing too but please excuse me and believe that I have the best of intentions.

And Victor - I can hardly believe how much better I feel post-op :) . I describe it to my friends as being like a temporary resurrection :) . I didn't know that I could feel so much better than the way my valve was ending my life.

Also, may I tell you about my dad? He died a little over three years ago. He was 66 years old. He wasn't afraid of dying. And that was brave. But he just didn't want to leave us, his family. And that was brave too. So he chose an aggressive and miserable double-chemo and simultaneous radiation to try to stave off a cancer that had already gone too far to reverse. The treatment killed him within two months of diagnosis. But he tried. He died with his boots on, so to speak. I can hardly express how much I miss him. He was always a loving, giving man. But his last expression of love was his trying to live, for us. To spare us the pain of losing him prematurely.

But medical treatment is absolutely a personal choice. You are brave, either way.

I'm sure your family loves you very dearly. Please accept my best wishes and my apologies for rambling and I hope I haven't offended you, ~Susan W

[Granbonny]

I first starting reading your posts when you joined our wonderful site..on December14th, 2003. It has been 1 year and 4 months since you joined. You have posted 104 posts about your wonderful, big guy. :) ..When you first posted..you told us all about your hospital stay..Flat-lined for 4 weeks in hospital...with problems from hep C..You went on to tell us about Victor's gun-shot wound which landed him in hospital..with traumatic surgery..your 2 daughters who had their own problems..and we posted back to you..encouraging you...and you always had such a great post coming back with smiles and that you knew things would be better... :) :) :) You posted on 1-30-2003 that Victor had even checked out books from Library about Heart disease.. :) Victor had been on coumadin and that itself is very worriesome. :( :( :( With his being overweigh and all the other things..your being ill..No wonder the Big Guy is scared. Leave him alone on the deck and let him smoke his pipe. (Married to a Pipe smoker for 38 years).......Believe me..He's thinking things out.........................and for all who posted on this thread....Be sure and read about the user's threads...Click on Members..bring up all their posts that they started..before you jump in and take a few minutes to read thru....I read them all..I know Victor weighs 300 lbs. from Shirley's posts.. That he is a Cabbie and works very hard..and that he loves Shirley Love you Shirley and anytime you want to post. Be sure and go to our Member's site and e-mail us.. I have posted 2, 471 posts..Again..for all Newbies..Take a litle time to click on Members posting for good or bad news..Helps before you reply :) bonnie

[Granbonny]

it was Dec. 14th 2002

[2hartsas1]

ok.....victor says he is very taken with everyones concerns.....he is surprised that so many had so much support for him!!!!! (sheesh, i wish he would come around here on his OWN!)
anyway, he says thank you all so much and he is still happy he chose as he did....for now anyway...
and me, well....i just have to let him be, i know.....i just am having difficulty...but who knows.....i am just glad he is home here with me tonight-i know that much. the day he went to the hospital, he had left his coffee spoon on a napkin on the kitchen counter....that napkin and spoon didnt budge an inch till he came home and moved them himself. ;)
so, as i have said....we will be around here...i can clearly see i would be cheating both myself and victor to leave such a great bunch of folks.
god bless you all and goodnight,
~shirley & victor

[Susan BAV]

Hey Lee (or anybody if Lee doesn't check back) -

What's a maze?

~Susan W

[xtremlee]

Just go here
http://www.mddietofutah.com/wwwboard/index.html

[medtronic of borg]

I hope you didn't miss interp. my privet message to you. The suggestion is made out of my concern and your love.

Med

[dawnwit15]

Shirley & Victor
I'm so happy to see that you decided to stick around this site. Please do not let a debate scare you away. I think the issues we discuss on this site bring along alot of emotion & passion to the table.
We are here to support you both in whatever decision Victor makes. The most important thing right now, is for you both to love eachother and cherish each day that you have together.
Please let Victor know, that we strangers here become friends overnight through our common experiences. He is not alone. We have all experienced the fear and hopelessness that comes along with OHS. Stay strong.
Love & friendship
Dawnwit15

[2hartsas1]

no, no missinterpretation....
i actually understand quite well your concerns and it may well come to pass that i do take action to get my victor to move his butt!!!!!
but......for now......we are watching tv together and that seems to please us both. ;)
goodnight,
~shirley & victor

[joy]

Hey Shirley and Victor, how are you guys? I am sorry to hear that you didn't have the surgery, Victor. Perhaps maybe another time, eh? I just logged on, and saw that you were going to leave the forum, and I am SO glad you didn't!

I think this is why we have moderators. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, BUT back when we had problems on other threads, the point was made (I don't remember if it was Ross or Hank) that we are NOT supposed to get off the subject of the thread...If you want to get off the subject, start another thread in 'small talk'.

That being said, I have been thinking about you and Victor, wondering how you have been, if either of you had made any medical decisions. Please keep us updated, and feel free to come and vent at any time. We are your family, and will always be here for you! It is hard being an SO of a heart patient, especially when you are ill yourself. Take care of yourself, Shirley, and eventually it will work itself out. We love you, and we are here for you!

Joy

[hensylee]

Joy always seems to pop in just at the right time with good thoughts. Thanks, Joy, you said it very well.

Shirley - you just stick around just like we said when you first joined all those months ago. Many of us recall that very first post and have followed with interest, caring and concern through it all since then. This site is for information AND SUPPORT. Info is when we just don't know what we want to know and SUPPORT is what comes after the info and it's what all of us need. So glad you aren't leaving us. Every single person in VR has something to offer, including you. We need you. Who knows when someone else will come in with a similar situation and you can give all sorts of info and support. Love Ann

[bethanne]

There are always alot of emotions when issues of the heart are at stake...

It is the difference of opinions and perspectives that bring diversity to a group. I have always liked the diversity here... :)

Shirley and Victor I hope you get some rest as this has been an exhausting week for the both of you for sure.

Good points have been made here from both sides and maybe when emotions are more calm solutions can be found. The most important thing is everyone here wants Victor to get better.

Still in the waiting room myself, I don't know how I will handle surgery day when it is here?

May I suggest continuing this thread in the significant others forum. I have browsed there and have been wondered at the fewer number of posts. I would think this would be a much needed area for spouses and family members to share emotions and feelings. I'm sure Shirley is not the only who has gone through this...

Get some rest and keep us posted :)

[2hartsas1]

hi bethanne,
yes i think that would be the perfect folder for this discussion. if anyone who has 'the power' wants to move it there, that would be fine with me.

in the meantime.....victor and i have been watching movies all day....and tending the flower garden...its a bright sunshiney day here and we are happy and laughing with one another......in this land of denial.......
~shirley & victor

[joy]

One of the best peices of advise my mom gave me when I was growing up is, "always live for today, enjoy the time you have here on earth." I have learned through my experiences with my heart disease, and all the trials and tribulations that we all have in common here on VR.com, is that we are all here for a reason, there is a plan for all of us...We just don't know what it is yet. It sounds like you and Victor are living your life, doing what you enjoy doing. Enjoy each other, and every day you have. Victor will come around and have his surgery when he is ready. Meanwhile, keep checking in and keeping us updated!

[2hartsas1]

i think you mom had the right idea!!!!!!
have great weekend joy ;)
shirley & victor

[tobagotwo]

I was dead afraid I would walk out on my surgery.

I have told many people that it just isn't right to have to surrender yourself up for this type of surgery. They should send six, burly men to drag you off, kicking and screaming, to the OR.

It still strikes home, even afterwards. I grabbed my wife's arm the other night and shouted, "I let a guy cut my heart out last week! What was I thinking?!"

If he can gather himself together to try again, in his own time, no recriminations, let him lead it, he will likely see it through. I can see from the postings that, whatever else, in the end he will most likely do it because he will not want to leave you.

[2hartsas1]

i hope that's the case.....but i'm afraid he is just gonna wait till "something happens" before he will take action. i am weary at this point. we have been struggling with this thing for 2 years now, with ME doing ALL the 'leg work' and i am tired. this is our 3rd 'go around' and the furthest he has taken it to date, so i guess in that sense, we are making 'progress'.
i surely do understand how frightening it is to be faced with such 'options'.
not a good place to be at all.
for now....we are just enjoying our time together.
you take care and please keep us all informed as to how you're doing!!!!! i am just in awe when i see people with such serious surgeries up and about, POSTING a WEEK OR SO AFTER!!!!
;) you sound great!!!!!!!
~shirley & victor

[Debrinha GT]

Dear Friends, while glancing through the threads last night, I came across this one, and I have to say that I had never expected to see something that was supposed to be aimed at helping people become such a free-for-all. Bearing that in mind, although we’re a family, we do have to remember that there will be differences of opinion from time to time, and each one of us is free to express his or her own opinions as they see fit. Since we can’t hear each other’s tone of voice, what is written down can often be misunderstood, but let’s try to stick to Victor’s case. No one here has intended to offend him or Shirley. I’ve read the posts and can understand both sides of the argument. On one side we have Victor, scared out of his wits and a bag of nerves, his emotions torn apart and at this point can’t think straight. On the other side, we have Shirley, a person with problems of her own who is trying to convince him to go through with the operation, but is giving up after trying everything she could. This is not an easy situation they’re going through. That’s where we come in, trying to help them work it out, a task which is far from easy. Anyway, all that’s left for us to do now is to keep on trying to at least get them to calm down and take things from there. I see that time is running out for him and we can all relate to how he feels one way or another. But by what I’ve seen before, there’s a lot more to it than merely being afraid of the operation. At this stage, only a professional might be successful in persuading him to work it out. However, as silly as it may seem, he is perfectly entitled to accept or reject this help, which leaves us with very little to do but continue treating him with the love and respect we all deserve. Let’s stick together and to those of you who have got a bit heated up over this, remember that we are all affected by our own heart problems and sometimes end up writing things down the wrong way. I say that we should keep the forum going strong and let bygones be bygones.

God bless you all

[2hartsas1]

thank you for your thoughts, and as of now, victor and i are just kinda hanging out and enjoying life (as we now know it) together. we are both faced with life challenging situations, so while it is difficult for me to agree with his choices....i have to accept them. i dont believe he is going to change his mind. either way, i will continue to come here, hopefully to help but also to accept all the support i (and victor) have received.
in my humble opinion-so many folks here have been through this with victor and me for the entire duration.....and i am so thankful for them. it is my honest belief that NO ONE (no matter what their assesment of the situation) posted anything that was meant toward myself or victor to be anything other than loving and supportive. everyone has their own way of showing support and i didnt see anyone in this thread, saying anything that was less than 100+% supportive. thats just my reaction to it all. i did have victor read all the posts and he understood where everyone was coming form-a place of total concern for us both.
you are right, this is a strong forum and i am more than happy to be able to come here and be received with open arms. and again, thank you too, so much, for your kind and loving support.
~shirley & victor ;)

[Rain]

Victor,

I agree with RCB. If I was you and read this thread, I’d think ‘what a self righteous bunch of people’. :eek: We have no idea why you’ve made the decisions you have. A lot of the decisions we make as individuals are decisions no one but we ourselves fully understand. No one else has “walked a mile in our moccasins”. There’s a lot of things that could be involved besides fear of the operation itself. There’s money, religion, family relations, on and on.. things some of us may never even think of could be influencing Victors decision.

I had a little confusion on whether I should be having the surgery myself. And religion was a big part of it. Most people would never understand that. I don’t really care. :rolleyes: I’m sure you don’t really care if we understand your reasons either. :) I do care about you, and I do hope you decide to have the surgery before it’s to late, but I respect your decision. :p

More than why I considered not having the surgery, I think it’s more appropriate to tell you why I DID decided to follow through with it. I did it for very selfish reasons. My cardiologist told me that my heart was in such bad shape that I would not live more than a few years without the surgery. I was very afraid of dying, :eek: but what bothered me even more.... was the thought of someone else raising my children. :mad: And I couldn’t stand the idea of what my death would do to my children, my Mom and my brothers and sisters. And as childish as it may seem... I couldn’t even stand the thought of anyone ‘sorting’ through my belongings after I was dead! :mad: lol I can tell from your wife’s post that you have many people around who love you too. :) When you feel so rotten it can be hard to remember why you want to live. :eek: But you have many reasons for keeping yourself alive... just ask your wife. She'll remind you what they are if you need her to. :D You'll feel so much better after the operation. When you feel good, you feel like living. But the catch 22 is.. ... you can’t feel good with out the dad gum operation. :(

I had to drive for 7 hours to get to the hospital where they could do my operation. Giving my kids and my Mom a hug and leaving them is one of the hardest things I’ve ever done. Then Victor... get this! I did the angiogram one afternoon, spent the night in the hospital... spent a sleepless night mentally preparing myself for the flippin’ surgery... did all the prep, with the anti biotic shower and such... THEN an hour before surgery time... the nurse tells me my surgeon is in an emergency operation and can’t do me that day!! I was like, “no, please God... you can’t do this to me!” (It was almost the straw that broke the camels back.) So rather than spend the night in the hospital, I wanted to go back to the hotel with my husband. I really, really dreaded going back to the hospital at 5:30 the next morning. I told myself, “Rain, don’t you dare second guess yourself. Put one foot in front of the other and do what ya gotta do to get yourself through this.” I wasn’t hysterical or anything... I just couldn’t stand the idea of them cutting my chest open, stopping my heart and messing around with what God gave me to begin with!! It was hard... I’m sure it was just as hard for everyone else who has had it done. Anyway... maybe that’s where you are... just put one foot in front of the other until you go through all the motions to get you to the other side. It’ll take some work. But I know if you make a decision in your mind to lose some weight, get the operation and have a life, you can do it. But you have to make the decision, not any of us here, or even your wife. Just think of the operation as your first step. That in itself will make you feel better, then add a little exercise, maybe some changes in diet and “walla” your kids have a happy, healthy father! :) You're wife has a happy, healthy husband and YOU have a happy, healthy self. :D I know, slap me... :p I made it sound so easy. It’ll take a lot of work... but its worth it. A lot of people care about you. Who knows what your future holds.

Big warm hugs, Victor. :) Don’t let anyone pressure you into anything you don’t wanna do........ but don’t wait to long to make the decision to live. :D Wow... there’s a name for that sentence. lol I just want what’s best for you and your family. You know what that is... so you go dude.

Shirley, I hope you will never leave us. I have much admiration for your accepting Victor’s choices. My Aunt went through this my Uncle... she was soooooooo mad at him. lol Not really funny, but it is in a way, if you’d have known them. :) I’d go sit up with my Uncle in the middle of the night, so my Aunt could get some sleep. Those are some of my favorite memories of him. Boy, did he tell me some stories about him and my Dad!! They were born in 1918 & 1916... he had some doozies! My Uncle died at home, just as he wanted too. But boy was my Aunt pissed and snarly at him sometimes. But you could tell they both really loved each other, as I can tell you love Victor. But my Uncle was an older man... he figured he didn't have that long anyway and he didn't wanna deal with it. I think Victor is a lot younger and will consider the future ahead of him. I think he’ll have the operation... if nothing else, he’ll do it for his children.

And lastly.... Rain the rebel, cannot help but say.... I think we should all be able to ‘air’ our comments here. Why should RCB need to hide his opinion? Who decides who’s opinion is worthy and who’s isn’t? That wouldn’t be a ‘public’ forum. That would be Ross’s (or who ever makes the decisions) forum. You may as well just talk to that person, because all other posts would reflect his opinion! Go ahead, tear this letter to Victor & Shirley apart... beat me up where ever you see fit..... but this IS RAIN’s opinion. You won’t change my mind, no more than I will change yours.

And lastly, lastly.... It’s Victor’s life, for crying out loud... lets be a little supportive. THAT is what this forum is all about. If anyone can convince me that calling someone a ‘coward’ (or whatever) is supportive.... then my Mama is gonna rise from the grave. Goes against everything she taught me. ALTHOUGH..... I will go on to say.... I’m sure you all meant well. Shirley, Victor.... I know you understand how this thread has got a little ‘off topic’ as Ross likes to call it.... but personally, I kinda think that’s part of what makes us a family. :D I bicker with my real siblings now and then....... what makes anyone think we won’t have a difference of opinion here with our vr.com siblings?? :p

Good luck Victor & Shirley. I wish you all the best!!

[2hartsas1]

oh man.....honey i cried all through your post!!!! not kidden!!!!
thank you so much for your support!!!!! i sure will have victor read it!!!
and i agree wiht you that we should all be able to 'air' our views. i'm not really sure that anyone actually got 'off topic',,i think more it was all combined into the pro and con of victors' decision. no, he never ever thought anyone was being mean or rude or anything like that at all. he understands why everyone wants him to have the operation and he knows how hard it is for us all to watch while he doesnt have it. :(
i know he is thankful to everyone who has become so much a part of our lives here, as am i. ;)
so far.....things are status quo. :rolleyes: no change.....but that will ultimately be his decision to make. i was very angry for a while, but now i see that i have to support him, no matter what...it is.in the end...his body, his life.
thank you again RAIN....you really made my day.
~shirley & victor

[Debrinha GT]

Hello Shirley and Victor, the fact that you've both been so active in this forum nust mean something and I'm sure that when we all least expect, Victor will have changed his mind. Even though he backed out at the last minute, I don't believe for a minute that he had intended to do so, it was a desperate act. He did go to hospital after all and I know that once he realizes how ill he can get, he'll do it again. I'll go on reading the messages . Bye :mad: !

[2hartsas1]

thanks honey, and i sure do hope you are right about victor......
i'm keeping my fingers crossed...
;)
~shirley & victor

[Debrinha GT]

Hi Shirley, just felt like saying hello and see how the two of you are getting on. I've been thinking about Victor an awful lot and every time I read about somebody having an operation, I wish he would work up the courage to do the same thing. I'm not going to bore you by repeating myself over and over but if only he realized the chance he's missing by having opted for the choice he did! I can't explain why but I do believe he'll still change his mind. By the way, Victor's my brother's name too. Don't forget to take care of yourself as well! Débora

[2hartsas1]

thank you deb!!! we are ok. so far. ;)
just hanging out with each other around the apt. goofy (victor) has taken to eating fat and salt and sugar again :eek: and i am just hanging on :rolleyes:
otherwise, not much has changed.
appreciate your concern, i will share with victor.
take care,
~shirley & victor

[tommy]

Shirley.

Love him.
And be sure to care care of yourself as well.

[Debrinha GT]

Hi Mark, I'm happy somebody else has turned up to keep this thread going. Regardles of Victor's choice, he still needs us all the same and so does Shirley, maybe more than ever now. Only time will tell the end of this story but for the time being, everything seems to be under control.

Shirley and Victor, don't think that because you haven't made the choice most of us hoped you would, that your friends here have forgotten you. Just keep on writing to us and hang in there! Feel free to write about anything at all and just in case you want to Email me or send me a PM , I'll be very happy to correspond with you. Débora

[2hartsas1]

honey thank you so much for your passionate post! as for as the egg.... :o
its ok .....i try to mess up the first thing every morning...that way i can pretty much avoid it the rest of the day..... :D
yoou betcha i am still gonn abe here!!!! ;) i need you guys and so does victor! he reads.....ok, because i MAKE him!!!! :p but still, he reads, and i know that everyones outpouring of support in each individual way, has made a huge impact on him!
i cant say he will change his mind...... :( but whatever he desides, i will have to accept it....
so, right now, victor is asleep and i am cooking some green beans to go with our dinner. ;)
maybe we should rename this thread: "SHIRLEY & VICTORS CONTINUING SAGA".... :p :D
once again, we both appreciate EVERYONES post!!!! believe me, right now, we need all the support (whichever the 'vote') we can get!! and we have never felt anything here BUT that!!!! :) :)
take care,
~shirley & victor

[Nancy]

Where is the passion, where is the fight, where is the "kick death in the shins spirit" that allows us all to keep on battling with severe disease? Has everyone given up on Victor?

It may be that he has lost the will to live. It may be that he's tired and feels very ill. It may be that he's frightened. It may be that in his illness, he is making decisions which he wouldn't ordinarily have made.

This is a young man. This is a man whose doctors have told him that he needs to have this surgery. This is a man who was told that without this surgery he would not survive. This is a man whose life might be saved by surgery. He has a FIXABLE problem.

This is a man with a wife who loves him to pieces and will be devastated if he passes away.

I am hoping that Victor hated my post. I am hoping that it made him furious. I am hoping that he thinks I'm a super PIA. I could care less about what he thinks about me.

Victor's life is worth developing a passion for.

I am hoping that it was a wake-up call. I am hoping my words made an impact. I do care very much about Victor and Shirley.

He's had a long, long battle. He's not getting any better. The Lord knows how much time he has left. Maybe he will lose the opportunity to have an option.

It would make me very upset if that were to happen, when Victor was thinking he had lots of time left.

If it is not Victor's choice to go ahead with surgery, so be it. Nothing I have said would make any impact in that case.

But maybe, just maybe, he will mull over what I have said and it might sway him, just a little.

I hope so Victor. I care. I want you to live. You do not have to die. You have a surgeon who thought he could save your life. Please don't go out without at least trying. You have a swing at the bat available. Why not see if you could score a homerun?

[2hartsas1]

God bless you honey. i hardly know what to say after that.
honestly, i think victor has given up. i think he is tired.
you're right......i will be devastated if i lose him.
i have tried everything i know nancy, to get him moving on this. and now...there is really nothing left for me to do but accept his decision....even though it sucks......
he is a young man and he even behaves as a young person....
i wish things were different.....but i am honestly just what this thread says....at the end of my rope.
i'm having victor do some catch up reading here now.....
nancy thank you so much. i sure can feel you in your post. ;)

just one more thing,......one more time.....to EVERYONE:
you guys are keeping me and victor both in such good spirits. having family here, the kind of strongly convicted and loving family you all are.....is helping us both more than you can know......thi sis the one place i (we) can come and know that we are understood and loved.
thank you all.
love from,
~shirley & victor

[Granbonny]

Rather than reading thru all your old threads you started and posts..Give us a shory story about Victor again..I know he drove a cab. Does he still drive a cab? I know he is over-weight..Has he lost any lbs??? When was he diagnosed with heart problems..Years ago, months? What are his symptoms? SOB, swelling any where? and not getting too personal..Family problems? We know it's not you.. :) Does Victor have children grandchildren...Just came home with my age 11 again for the weekend. Dreading school will be out May 21..He goes to his Mom's in N.C. and then to resorts towns in Mexico for 3 weeks..and since I have had him for every single birthday. July 10th. I want him to spend this year with his other family in N.C...Get to know his cousins, has a little 1/2 sister age 6..His other Grandmother loves him as much as I do..and we are all good friends. I will give him up for 2 months :eek: :eek: :eek: If Victor has Grandchildren that would make himwant to stick around. :D :D John is age 73 and ADORES Kameron. John the 4th.. :) :) :) They are both fishing as we speak. Last weekend, Kameron caught a 5 lb. bass. Papa took a picture..it is posted on P.O. board and so many Guys have told him..Saw the picture of your Grandson. He struts like an old Banny Hen. :D (Papa John) We are always here for you both.. :) :) Bonnie

[2hartsas1]

thank you so much honey....will do ;)
~shirley & victor

[2hartsas1]

:eek: ok, well, untill i figure out how to get victor his own handle here....he is going to use mine.....
god bless us everyone........ :rolleyes:
ladies and gentlemen.......
heeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeessssssss Victor!!!!!!! :eek:

[Nancy]

Hey-Victor-

Is this really you, the man himself????

Do tell us a little about yourself. We've only heard from your better half. :p

[Granbonny]

Glad you are going to type a little. :) Don't worry. We don't BITE. :D Bonnie

[Rain]

Hey Victor!! How ya doin?! :)

I really hope you feel the positive vibes that we are all sending to you. I want you to know that I think I know how impossible it feels at this point to get your life in order. But Victor, it’s worth the effort. Start with baby steps and let us hold your hand.

Hey Victor!! How about you and Shirley coming to our reunion in CO this October?!! That’s something to look forward to!! :D I just know you'd absolutely love it!!

[Debrinha GT]

Hello Victor, you must've read all my posts by now but there's one more thing I forgot to say. Brazil is a third world country and health is not a priviledge for all. Every day here, people of all ages die in the queue for the public health services because they cannot afford private health insurance. Bu for you in the USA this is not the question. In your country, you have access to top quality health care and your life is worth something. Don't throw away this chance that so many Brazilians would so gladly accept. And besides, think of those who wait too long and end up dying over something they could have resolved at an earlier stage. This is not your case. You have a chance now, and a very good one. Everything is risky in life, but you have a chance that God has given you! Fight for what you can. We want you to pull through and save your chance of the gift of life. My father died of a non-related heart problem in 1988 after having tried everything possible to stay alive. Have you ever heard of Lou Gehrig's disease? It's a killer and believe me, it is an excrutiating death! Victor please, go for your operation. Nothing ventured, nothing gained!

[2hartsas1]

Uh-oh, Goofy(Victor) is here! :D
Someone on the thread asked for a short bio. Here goes:
Juvenile delinquent thief from a bad neighborhood.
High school drop-out(failed the 11th grade).
U.S. Marine Corps(1962-66).
GED recipient. College graduate-Lamar University(1971) in top 10% of
class. Post-graduate at Sam Houston State U. with a 3.5 GPA on a 4-
point and completion of all courses(did not finish thesis).
*All college work completed while working full-time as a police officer
in a city of 100,000+ and as a deputy sheriff in a county of 50,000+.
Twice honored for acts of heroism saving lives(so much for being a
coward).
Taught cops how to be cops and criminal justice at collegiate level.
Taught private security/investigation.
Taught antiterrorism at 1988 Olympics in Seoul,Korea, for NBC TV.
Predicted terror attack upon United States as early as 1989 and was
ridiculed by the Houston Chronicle as trying to train private security
as "Super Cops". Was labeled by my industry as Chicken Little yelling,
"The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"
By the way, the sky fell on 9/11. And, it is going to continue to fall, because we are in no way prepared for what is coming.
Now, when I do work, I am very happy to be a cab driver, even though I was shot in the chest on October 17, 1992, and was supposed to
have died then. Oh, and I was spiritually saved on April 4, 1992.
Nearly three years ago, I found Shirley. I love her with all my heart-
even the bad valve that appears to be "the connecting thread".
*Shirley did not tell you, I had a heart murmur when I was born in 1944.
Heart specialists told my mother at the time I would outgrow it and I did,becoming very athletic, a Marine, a cop and all the other without any detectable murmur. Then, in 1979, I became overweight and the murmur returned.
A trip to the VA in North Chicago resulted in two weeks' testing, including a catheter. No surgery at that time.
Condition worsened over time to the point where we are today. Now I sustain with Coumadin, Metapropol Tartrate, et al.
Had an A-fib attack two years ago requiring hospitalization for 1 week. It restarted on own, even though we were getting ready to shock it back to normal(Shirley witnessed the power of prayer and the use of the Bible-
five minutes before "they" were supposed to wheel me away for the shocking. Get that? Five minutes! I was willing to go through the shocking. Did not have any reservations, "gut instincts" or intuition. All I did was pick up the Bible, pray and trust in my faith/belief. It worked.
True, last year the doctors in Cardio wanted to cut; but my mother was dying from a long-term illness and I did not feel it was the right time for her, for me, or my family. She died (9/30/03).
This time, I was scheduled for a consultation about upcoming heart surgery at the VA here in Houston on the afternoon of 4/5/04. I evidently
had a strong "anxiety attack" that morning, requiring transport by ambulance to the local hospital ER. About eight hours later, a doctor gave me Demerol and Phenagan. I reacted to the Phenagan and went over the edge into the abyss. I was "gone" for 36 hours- 24 of them on my own.
The doctor told Shirley "he might not come back- he might be this way the rest of his life". I do not remember ANY of that- until I came back naturally on Wednesday, April 7th.
I was transferred to the VA, where I languished in preparation for heart surgery scheduled for 4/12/04. On 4/10/04 my team of doctors came into the room and said,"Oh, by the way. In addition to stopping your heart for 4 1/2 hours while we install this here mechanical valve, we would also like to do an ablation(first time in all that time the topic came up)."
Shirley and I had been under the impression that the A-fib of two years before had returned to normal. The doctors assured us that was not the case- I'd been A-fib all along. Hmm! Why didn't anybody say something before?
They explained the ablation would only take an additional 20 minutes and would involve "frying" a small portion of my heart, in addition to the valve replacement. I had to sign a release for the valve replacement AND a
release for the ablation. Get it? Two separate releases.
Sunday, 4/11/04, my "anesthesologist" came into the room and proved the disadvantages of outsourcing. She had trouble speaking English and/or
communicating with me comfortably. Don't forget my lack of a memorable
experience with the Phenagan. She asked,"Are you allergic to anything?"
Excuse me, wait a minute. This was my anestheologist? The one who would be knocking me out before my surgery? Is there something wrong with this picture?
I mulled over all of that too.
Then, in addition to being on a "no salt" diet all week, instructions were
given for "Nothing by Mouth" after Midnight. Even on "Death Row", the condemned are allowed a last meal of their choice, but here "no salt" and
Nothing by Mouth after 12.
At 6 AM on the following day, I shut everything down. I did not feel good about it. My intuition was strong. My gut feeling was phenomenal!

Well folks, I'll tell you something. On my calendar, since the 12th, I've written a L- for every day I have been alive since. We are now getting ready to write L-11(I wait until midnight).
I have lived a full and complete life to this point. I get to "high-five"
whoever is at whichever gate I go through after the Grim Reaper comes and say,"The life I lived was ReaLLLY Great; but please, don't make me do it again!.
I have not had a stroke. I have not had a heart attack. I am alive and I am still here for Shirley.
I made my choice.
God Bless You All,
Remember Jesus Christ, Our Lord & Savior
And Walk in The Holy Spirit
Victor

[Karlynn]

Victor,
I am a woman of faith myself. I am a director of music at a church and make a conscious effort to grow spiritually every day. October 24, 1991 at the age of 32, God granted me a second life with my valve replacement. I have to be honest and say that you may have given up on you, but God hasn't. God didn't gift the people who replace defective valves, and heal hearts into a normal rhythm in order to have someone turn that gift down who can obviously benefit from it. Have you stopped to pray on whether you are following God's plan for your life, or whether you are following your plan for your life? If Jesus had followed his own plan for his life - we would not have life eternal (Father take this cup from me) Jesus did not want the cross, but he knew that the cross was in God's plan for him. He knew what was going to happen. He knew it would be horribly excruciating, he was fully human in begging God to change God's mind. But in the end, he followed God's path and now look at the lives that are saved. Had Jesus chickened out and left the Garden that night - he could have lived to a ripe old age, he probably would have even felt some relief and piece to know he wasn't going to go through the pain. That would have been the end of it...for all of us. Don't mistake any sense of relief you feel as being a sign that you made the right decision. God never promised life would be easy, He just promised it would be worth it.

I'm having a hard time understanding why someone who has obviously lived the life of a hero, won't save himself - or to be more correct - let God save him through the gift He's given others. Go back to your Garden - choose the way God has planned for you. For as our Christ suffering bore great gifts, so will yours. I've read archeological coroners' accounts on just how Christ suffered and died, and believe me - your pain will pale in comparison.

This may sound harsh, and it will be the last I have to say on this - you may be happy and relieved at your decision - but I'm pretty sure that God isn't.

Praying for you.

[2hartsas1]

i wont interrupt but a sec, and then tomorrow victor will be back.
the more i think on this....i am wondering.....victor, if you had felt comfortable with the docs from the very start...i.e., had we had a team outside the va, say maybe at methodist, would you have not felt much less afraid? although i was 100+% confident in our team and everything about the whole operation....you were not.
had you been....would you have had the operation?
~me

[Debrinha GT]

Hello Victor, you sure have lived a pretty exciting life up to now! It has reminded me of these programmes you see on TV and I really admire you for the things you've done. My brother Victor, named after my grandfather, is a chief of police in the state of Santa Catarina here in the South of Brazil. It's risky work but he gets a very good wage. Well, friend, you must've worked out by now that we've grown to like you and Shirley a lot and If we're still insisting on you having the operation despite your efforts to convince us to lose hope, is because we do believe you can make you. I can imagine how traumatic you experience must've been and the negative feelings it has caused you but please, weigh the pros and cons and you'll realize the are more advantages than disadvantages in going for it, and the sooner the better. If necessary, get a second opinion, change doctors, whatever, but at least give it some thought. Since you're not feeling that bad at the moment, you're under the illusion that you can go forever like this, but Victor, it's not as simple as that and the picture may change overnight! As I've told you in my last post, my step father which was a real father to me, died of Lou Gehrig's disease and my mum has been fighting against Myastenia Gravis for years!{I don't remember how to spell it in English}. Why don't you take a couple of hours to read all the posts over again and just maybe, you'll come across something that will make you change your mind while you're still a candidate for surgery. Say hello to Shirley for me.

[Glenda]

Victor, what an interesting post about yourself. You sound like a really neat guy! A wonderful Christian man. A wonderful husband to Shirley. You're way too young to give up, and look at everything that you have been through, this would be a piece of cake. Remember the Serenity Prayer:

God grant me serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

Victor you can change this. You can take control. That's what I'm going to do myself in about a month. Granted I have a lot of strikes going against me going into this surgery. Besides being way overweight. I'm a diabetic and I have chronic myeloid leukemia. I have had two serious cancer surgeries within the last three years. I am a survivor! But I also have complete faith in God and I know that He is still in control of this situation. I will win regardless of what happens. I know the end of the story. Let me leave you with this and I pray that this will bless you as it blessed me.

Hello God,
I called tonight to talk a little while
I need a friend who'll listen to my anxiety and trial.
You see, I can't quite make it through a day just on my own . . .
I need your love to guide me, So I'll never feel alone.
I want to ask you please to keep My family safe and sound.
Come and fill their lives with confidence for whatever fate they're bound.
Give me faith, dear God, to face each hour throughout the day,
And not to worry over things I can't change in any way.
I thank you God for being home and listening to my call,
For giving me such good advice when I stumble and fall.
Your number, God, is the only one that answers every time,
I never get a busy signal, never had to pay a dime.
So thank you, God, for listening to my troubles and my sorrow.
Good night, God, I love You too, And I'll call again tomorrow!

Victor God is there for you always, even when you think everyone esle has betrayed you and left you. He never does! And we are here for you and Shirley too!

[medtronic of borg]

Hey Victory,
Instead of all of us chiming in again and beating a dead horse...I challenge you to convince me you have thought it completely through. Let the rest of us shut the &^*( up and listen to what he has to say. I am not going to jump on an opportunity to nail my beliefs onto your feet as others on here are doing. Just write to us so we can understand.

Med

[Karlynn]

Just happened to think of this old joke today - that I think is very appropriate here. I love this joke because I think it portrays how God works through people and how God speaks through people.

Rain was falling down in torrents in a town. They began broadcasting over the radio that the citizens should leave because the levy was about to break and the town would be flooded. The sheriff pulls up in his squad, just outside the church when he sees the pastor standing on the steps looking up at the sky. He tells the pastor "Pastor, why don't you come with me? The town is about to flood and I can get you out safely." The pastor replies "No thank you son. I have faith that my God will save me." So the sheriff drives on.

The rain continues to fall, the levy breaks and water comes rushing through. The pastor makes his way up to the roof of the church. Just then a few men come by in a boat. "Pastor, jump in, we don't know how much longer we'll be able to fight the current and make these trips to get people." The pastor replies "No thank you my sons. I have faith that my God will save me." The men in the boat shake their heads and leave to rescue those who are willing.

The rain continues to fall and the waters rise. The pastor climbs up to the steeple of the church and is just able to grasp on to it as the water rushes by on all sides of him. A helicopter comes along and a rope is dropped down. The pilot yells through a bull horn "Pastor! GRAB A HOLD OF THE ROPE, WE'LL PULL YOU TO SAFETY!" The pastors yells over the sound of the rushing water "NO THANK YOU. I HAVE FAITH THAT MY GOD WILL SAVE ME." So the helicopter, not want to risk crashing into the torrential waters, leaves.

The rains continue, the waters rise and the pastor is swept away in the current and drowns. When he gets to heaven he quickly searches to find God. When he does, he says to God "God, I had faith in you! I thought you would save me, but you let me die!" And God says to the pastor

"I sent you a sheriff, a boat and a helicopter. What more did you want?"

Victor - please take the helicopter ride. The view is incredible.

[Raverlaw]

Karlynn,

I've heard that one several times before. It is so appropriate to Victor's situation, though; thanks for reminding us.

Often it can be hard to know exactly what God's plan is. But having experienced the *miracle* of valve replacement surgery, a miracle that didn't even exist when my bicuspid valve was first diagnosed as a child, I think I can say with some confidence that God gave a few chosen people the talent and skill to perform this operation in order to save people like you, me and Victor. Victor needs the operation-God put skilled surgeons here to do it. What else is there to know? How can it be God's plan for Victor to refuse surgery and die an early death?

Victor- are you listening? Or maybe you will follow Anna's tongue-in-cheek theory-- "If you can't serve as a shining example to others, at least serve as a horrible warning" Don't be the warning ...

[Ross]

Victor since you were into instructing in law enforcement, does the name T.R. McClanahan ring a bell to you?

[Debrinha GT]

To Glenda and Joe{Nancy's husband} The two of you are such admirable people because no matter what you have to face, you still manage to keep a positive atitude and encourage others. Congratulations!

Karlynn, what great words you've just posted! I think everybody should read through them very carefully and see how important it is to pay good attention to what God tries to tell us. His message might not always get to us the way we would like it to, but he never forgets to answer to our prayers. I'll even make a copy of these such wise words and translate them into Portuguese so that my family and friends can take a look.

[MelissaM]

I haven't chimed into this post, but have been reading this with interest and was very happy to read Victor's side of the story (for every story has two sides). My intuition has saved my hide more than once - literally kept me from death. So. . .Victor. . .if your intuition was telling you STOP. . .then I believe its a darn good thing you listened to it. I believe that the spirit speaks to us in many ways, one of which is through our intutuion. Who knows what the "stop" feeling meant? Could have been the surgeon had a hangover that day. . .or someone on the team was distracted. . .or one of a million things. But the bottom line was you were tuned into the spiritual radar that rules our world and you listened to it.

Good for you.

Sometimes the hardest thing to do is to make an unpopular decision. Sometimes the hardest thing to do is to listen to your gut. Your life story demonstrates your strength of character - you've pulled yourself up from hard times and learned to trust yourself and your judgement. Your judgement is what has gotten you this far in life - keep listening to it.

I trust that you have made the choices that are right for YOU (like valve choice, this is a totally personal decision) and will continue to make the choices that are right for you and for Shirley. If surgery is right for you, God Bless and we will be right behind you. If you decide that surgery isn't in your plans, it is my hope that we will be right beside you as well. I have walked by too many people through life and through death (both in my own family and as a hospice volunteer) to be judgemental about your decision, and hope we on this forum can realize that ultimately this is your decision and support you in whatever decision you make.

God Speed,

Melissa

[Rain]

Our world needs more men like you. You showed your self motivation, determination & perseverance in your bio. Not to mention your lack of cowardice!! But ya know... We all need a little support and comfort at times. I hope you feel the support here in this forum. I hope you will continue to visit and know that we care about you.

I can understand why you would have second thoughts after hearing your story. And for goodness sakes we all have the right to back out at any time, for any reason. I hope you don’t feel like you shouldn’t plan it again, just because you didn’t follow through the first time. I can see how a person might be a little embarrassed after all the family coming and whatever. But the truth is... They’ll love and respect you a lot more if you give it another whack. You didn’t say if you have children. To be real honest... it was my love for my children more than anything else that got me through heart surgery.

What ever happens..... stay in touch!! I hope you and Shirley will think about coming to our reunion this October?? I promise you’ll have a great time and LOVE the people!! :D

One more thought.... have you been honest with your cardio about why you didn't have the surgery? You don't have to answer.... but if he's worth the degree he earned, he could help you out.

[Granbonny]

Hope this finds you well. Tell shirley hello..I don't have much to say..other than, my age 34 year old son (the Love of my life) is also a policeman..Now for 14 years. Joined at age 20.. :eek: :eek: Cried my eyes out..but that is what he wanted to become..They sent him to Police academy..He has served in every field...Their county dive team, their DARE school person, their un-cover drug guy :eek: :eek: :eek: Got the tattoo's.ect... Their school high profile fast-driver. again :eek: :eek: :eek: Saw him this afternoon, when he came to pick up his son. By the way, he is a single father to Kameron.....He told me today about having to mace an age 15 year old boy..because the boy had a knife and told Wes to shoot him. Nothing to live for. :( :( :( :( Wes took him early the next day and begged the Judge to put him into hospital for mental health. Not to send him to prison. BTW, Ross. I googled, T.R. McClanahan. What a profile in law Enforcement. Will print it off for son........Victor, I know first hand what policemen go thru..and a lot son never would tell me. :p :p :p :p :p Reading your post, several times, the NO=Salt was probably to lower your B/P. The No food after midnite. so you would not choke on your vomit if they put tube in your mouth. :eek: and you threw up??? Maybe because you were in another hospital, they did not know you were allergic to Phenagin?..I post a lot but do not know much about medicines, ect. They found my aneurysm ..and I only had a 3 day wait. Could have burst like John Ritter or Lucille Ball's. :eek: :eek: :eek: and I wouldn't be here today to post to such nice people like you and Shirley. :) :) :) Bonnie

[Bill Hall]

Victor - I have been reading a few of these posts and just wanted to make a few comments. After reading your biography, it seems you are an accomplished person. I wondered if the fact that you have to put yourself into the hands of these doctors is what is bothering you. I can assure you that all of us went into surgery trusting that those surgeons would put that valve in and we would recover. The statistics say you would pull through and be better off. Sorry if this has already been said, but I haven't read all the posts. Good luck with the path you choose.

[2hartsas1]

I do appreciate the concern of everyone. With caring like that expressed, it is so difficult to believe there is such animosity/hatred in the world every day.
As my bio. discloses, I have seen a lot of the negativity of mankind. I have seen it in the back of my taxicab for 13 years now. I saw it as a teacher. I saw it as a deputy sheriff, cop and Marine. I saw it enough to
believe it is "the way of the world".
I do firmly believe in God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and the Bible; but
I believe in those points differently from some of my fellow Christians
(I believe in Divine Design and "Old World Creationism"),

True, my bio. shows a lot of triumph; but the valleys have been fairly steep too. In fact, at times they have been chasms into the abyss- very deep.
My children are in their 30s and I have two grandkids.
I have Shirley and she is my precious jewel. What some of you may not know is:she is on at least a par with me in her illness and
almost two years ago, when she was hospitalized while under closely super-
vised medical treatment, we almost lost her due to medical incompetence.
She flat-lined and for about a week it really did not look good at all in ICU.
The fact she is here at all is a miracle in and of itself.
My shooting in 1992 was a miracle too. The doctors told my family,"If he lives through the night, he has a pretty good chance of making it. It was like there was a hand inside guiding the bullet(collapsed lung, missed all major organs and all arteries) ". It is currently pointed toward my chin after a downward trajectory from the right side. I had sixty-six staples in my chest on that one and wrote in my spiritual journal of the time(November,1992) that the pain and suffering at the time was so horrible I did not think I would be alive in a year. Coming back from that was R-E-A-L-L-Y rough and full recovery took five years. I lost 40 lbs. in two weeks and then was only 210 lbs.
Now, I am 296. Now I am 12 years older. Now, I've gotten a lot of mileage out of this body and now I have my precious jewel.
Folks, I was just not comfortable with the idea of jumping onto the table this time. I am comfortable with that decision. Isn't it a Great Life?
I do still have mine to live and at this time, surgery is not even being contemplated.
God Bless You,
Remember Jesus Christ,
Our Lord and Savior,
Walk in the Holy Spirit

Victor
P. S. None of us are designed, made or adapted to last forever physically; but spiritually we can last for eternity if we just find the way.
I believe I have.
Oh and BTW Ross, no, that name does not ring a bell with me, sorry. Who is it?

[Ross]

Hi Victor, T.R. was my law enforcement instructor in riot and mob control, techiques and mechanics of arrest, and self defense. I dabbled into Law Enforcement in the early to mid 80's. At any rate, with the back ground you've given us, I thought sure you and he would have met up somewhere.

You can read his bio here: http://www.usjujitsu.net/bio/mcclanahan/

[2hartsas1]

I checked out the site......mmmmm, no, not much chance we would have bumped into one another....kinda different backgrounds and locations.
:confused:

[Ross]

I figured between the Corp, law enforcement, and teaching, you two may have crossed pathes. It was worth asking anyhow. :)

[Gemma]

Victor, I'm not going to get into whether I think you made the right choice or not, but I thought I'd point out that all anaesthetists ask if you're allergic to anything - it's to make sure they're not inadvertently giving you something your body can't tolerate. When Jim was admitted to hospital I think everyone he saw - surgeon, nurse, anaesthetist, registrar - asked the same question. As it happens he has only one allergy and it's orange juice with bits in (the smooth kind is fine -no idea why) but at least if he'd been allergic to any drugs the doctors would have all known about it. As it turned out he still got orange juice for breakfast a couple of times - obviously they didn't tell the catering staff! But still, all the medical personnel made sure they had all the pertinent facts.
Also I think Melissa's right about trusting your gut instincts. Jim had to wait 2 weeks from his original surgery date, and I honestly believe neither of us were ready for him to have it done the first time around. When he actually had it done, it was scary as hell, but we got through it and lived to tell the tale.