Your opinion is requested..

[Hank]

Please take a moment to provide your feedback to the above poll.

Feel free to add your comments in a post on this thread.

I always like to solicit feedback from my members before making such decisions.

[SJJ]

Hi guys. I went with the periodic plea-NPR gets me to open my wallet big time everytime they remind me that donations make it possible for me to enjoy their fine programming WITHOUT ANNOYING ADVERTISING.

Sue

[Tony]

Try voluntary donations before going to mandatory membership fees.
I think you wold get a good response to voluntary contributions.

Tony :)

[Abbanabba]

I think voluntary donations is a great way to start.

The problem with annual member's fees is that you then have to restrict access to non-members to make it fair, which in turn can discourage many people from using the forum (..and being that it is such a valuable resource, that would be a crying shame..). If you don't restrict non-member access, people come and go and it then means the people who stay and support the site end up copping the expense for everyone else. If it were to be a mandatory thing, perhaps there could be a fee due after "X" amount of posts, so it becomes a "user pays" kind of deal, and still gives non-members the opportunity to check the site out.

A : )

[Granbonny]

Voluntary donation...due every Feb. 14th..HEART DAY:) :) :) :) :) :)I would be glad to remind everyone starting on Feb. 1st....Bonnie

[JimL]

I think the site needs to be totally open to those coming for information, with no restrictions of their ability to join and read the forum and post questions and answers.

I have no objection to mandatory dues, IF the above concern can be handled. Because I'm not sure about that, I marked voluntary contributions.

I also think that there needs to be some kind of accounting, a periodic report of costs versus contributions.

[Ross]

Jim I share that concern also. If we were to go to paid membership, that would be viewed as an automatic turn off to stick around by most people. In fact the word "pay" has caused people to immediately start looking elsewhere without even giving it a second thought. I don't see how it could be implemented and be fair to everyone, new and old alike.

[Georgia]

Bonnie has a terrific idea - I think a once-a-year solicitation with the Heart Day emphasis will help a lot.

Maybe someone out there with advertising or fundraising background can help make it a pressure-packed appeal.

[LUVMyBirman]

If an mandatory membership is implemented. New members coming on could have a one month free trial. That way they can decide if it's something they would like to continue on with. From experience....taking up collections when funds are needed desperately to keep the "boat afloat" can be hair raising. I am sure the yearly membership fee would not be anything absorber ant.

Mini fund raisers could still be initiated as needed. I don't know of anywhere else on the net you can receive this type of support free of charge! I am all for the membership with free trial!

Hank, you can call upon Tracy at anytime if you would like to pick is brain about banner advertisement. :)

[wlaldridge]

Amen brother JimL

and Ross

For my own part, I have such affection for this site and the people here that helped me approach that mountain and cross it. I don't come around much anymore but my heart is still here and I continue to want to help(I seldom post anymore since I have nothing of substance to offer beyond what the regular denizens of the site say regularly to most who come by).
My personal financial position is not as good as I would like it to be, but not as bad as some who have visited here. Where I feel I can help and make a difference, I try. I have made contributions on more than one occasion both to the site and to particular individuals that were in need. I know others have done the same. Please do not do anything that will automatically exclude anyone needing this site and the wealth of information and good wishes.

I too, have asked about the "costs" and expenditures needed to keep the site alive and well. I have not found any information. None has been offered.

A recent donation and note about proposed expenditures went unacknowledge, which I thought was strange since in the past an "automated" response was at least sent back. This most recent donation was in response to a specific request and I thought I would hear what became of the contribution. Now I don't know where I stand on future donation. While I donate for the overall good of the group and not for personal recognition, it would be well to know it was received and how it "fits" in the overall scope of things. It is like punching pillows to discuss funding and donations when you don't know the underlying costs and sources and uses of funds.

I know anything mandatory would exlude me and many others, probably even before we visited once. If the costs can not be covered by some voluntary method it will be a great loss to those future visitors in need of this wonderful site.

Best wishes to all,

Bill

[ALCapshaw2]

Hank,

You have opened a 'sticky wicket' as the Brits would say.

I see several problems with a mandatory subscription.

o Visitors may shy away from making posts

o Contributors would shoulder the costs

o Without a Public Accounting of Receipts and Expendatures,
there could be a lot of retinence (sp?)

SO, it appears to me that either a Voluntary Contribution program or advertising is the course of least resistance.

'AL'

[dwfreck]

I voted for "Periodic pleas...", but there's a pretty thin line between that and "An annual voluntary dues charge" which is just a periodic plea with a regularly scheduled period and a fixed donation amount.

I'd like the site, and the forums in particular, to remain avaiable to everyone, regardless of their financial support. I'd also like to think we could be flexible enough to allow folks to contribute whatever they think they can afford.

In my own charitable giving, I have found it much easier, and more satisfying, to give when an organization has one or more specific financial targets. It is much easier for me to give when I hear, "We need $10,000.00 to pay for our web server and internet bandwidth," than it is when I hear, "We need your money." Personally, I get almost as many solicitations for donations as I get solicitations for credit cards, so it seems like everybody is saying, "We need your money!"

Like Ross, I hate banner ads too, and I think audience-targeted banner ads would detract from the site's feeling of non-commercial authenticity, which is very important to me.

I've seen a few "sponsored" sites where the sponsorship is very low-key and the sponsors don't seem to affect the content. Of course, I can't remember exactly where I saw them at the moment. Would one or more sponsors work for this site? I can think of a whole host of possibilities: the various valve companies, the various major heart centers, the American Heart Association, major universities, major research centers. Which kind of sponsor(s) do you think would be best? Would you be willing to "merge" this site and forum with a sponsor's site and forum(s)?

Here's a challenging question: Could valvereplacement.com organize and/or incorporate itself to qualify as a charitable, non-profit organization under the tax code (I think the appropriate section is 501(c)(3))?

Why should we bother, you ask? Because then we would qualify for matching charitable gifts from some of the employers of our memebers. We might also qualify for all kinds of other "free" money in the form of grants, fellowships, bequests, etc. I've never been involved with funding a charitable organization, so I don't really know what the possibilities are, but I am a frequent contributor to charitable organizations AND my employer matches my contributions 2 for 1, so I know the power of that match!

Those are my thoughts so far, I'll add any more that come up. Please let me know what you think about my ideas.

[SJJ]

The more I think about this, an annual donation would assume that an individual would be using the site for a years time. A periodic plea might not catch everyone who comes on for just a few weeks or months. How about a periodic plea (love the Valentines Day idea) and an ongoing notice that would be seen everytime one goes to the site saying something to the effect that if you've found the site useful, supportive, etc to please consider making a contribution so that it can continue to be of service to you and others. That may get a few donations from folks who are just checking it out or using it very short term. Anyhow, those are my thoughts.

Sue

[dwfreck]

Oops, my bad, I just noticed WE are sponsored... by QAS! Now that's subtle sponsorship!

SJJ,

We already have an ongoing notice that is "seen" (or maybe not?) everytime someone visits the site. There's a link down in the lower half of the home page with the text "Want to keep it all going?"

Hank,

I assume from your original posting that you're faced with a funding decision of some sort. I also assume that if we were facing a crisis, you would be more urgent in your request for opinions and ideas. I've just taken a fresh look at the home page and the various sponsorship and donation elements on it. These are my thoughts: They're not objectionable or obnoxious in any way. They may be too subtle, in the sense that you kind of have to look for them. They may be a little redundant, in the sense that there are several mentions of and links for QAS and links to PayPal. However, I'm definitely NOT an expert in web page design, so I wouldn't be surprised if multiple links are helpful.

[SJJ]

Duhhhh..and I can't even blame pumpheadedness as I haven't yet had my surgery. Actually, after my very first visit, I've never gone to the home page (go directly to the forums with "favorites" feature on my computer) and didn't see the notice on that occasion. Maybe it would help to have the notice sprinkled throughout the format for those, like me, who take shortcuts.

Sue

[Rain]

If I had found this site and didn’t know any of you, I wouldn’t pay money to be a part of it. There’s a lot of places on the net to find information without paying for it. And the guy stumbling across the site looking for information doesn’t know how much more there is here.

The public accounting of funds is a good idea too. Are you getting an appropriate amount of money from the current sponsors??

Once people are here and find it useful, I think they will contribute what they can afford.

[epstns]

Hank, I voted for the Annual Voluntary approach, but there are so many good ideas here that I would think we can come up with some sort of program that addresses the needs. If you're not comfortable posting details on an open forum, why not e-mail a sample of us back-channel regarding what is really needed and where your thoughts are on it?

Personally, I'll have to agree with those who feel that the forums should be kept as open as possible. That is the basis of the family we've built here. On the other hand, I do not think the site should remain a burden on the Eyring household, regardless of how emotionally attached you may be. Not trying to be unkind, just my opinion that we should find a way in which all of us who are able (and willing) can participate. Oh, another thing, I do not use PayPal, so we need to have the means for handling other means of payment.

On a lighter note, since I plan to be around a while prior to surgery, lets keep the mechanics simple enough that I can participate in supporting VR.com!

[Nancy]

I think if this were an organization with Tax Exempt status and people could take a tax write-off for their contributions, the mandatory fee or a dues charge would fly better. That would include lots of filing of applications, I'm sure, and would involve a lot of legal and accounting stuff, plus providing the donor with a receipt for tax purposes.

The phrase "An annual voluntary dues charge" appears to be an oxymoron, since if it were voluntary, it wouldn't be a dues charge.

I would vote for a periodic request for contributions, and that should include providing the donors with an acknowledgement of receipt of funds. If it were done often enough, I'm sure folks would give what they could. Since there are also sponsors, they should be covering some of the expenses. Have you approached any other heart related sponsors? Unfortunately, they might require censorship of postings, which, in my opinion, is a very negative thing.

Very difficult choices here. I know many websites struggle with finances.

I don't know how I feel about banner ads. I probably would ignore them anyway.

[tommy]

If I had seen a mandatory fee, I might never have entered into this wonderful world of VR.com. Now I can't imagine being with out you.

I vote to be inclusive, regardless of your finances. I'll contribute. For those that can't contribute, maybe next year you can. In the meantime, your posted infomation may be very valuable to me.

How much money are we talking about?

Sure, I'd like to see some annual accounting, but I don't see the need for auditors and the like. Heck, I trust you with my thoughts and fears, I can trust you with some money.

Give it a try for Heart Day 2004 and see how it goes.

Charitable status wouldn't hurt.

[Karlynn]

Hank,
Could you fill us in on the operating expensed for VR? What are the bottom line annual expenses that you would like to see covered by the members? I have no clue what it cost to keep this great site running and would love to know.

I would opt for a voluntary donation, for the reason that I think a membership fee might keep some away who could really benefit from the site. I am more than willing to donate, but am uncertain what would be considered "enough".

Is there some way you could set up a donation progression - much like PBS? For example:
$10, $25, $50, $75, $100

Maybe a nutty idea but is there anyway that Cafe Press would let you give coupons for 10% or 15% discounts off of VR merchandise for donating a certain amount - such as $50 or more?

Corporate Sponsors - you already have QAS (don't know what you get from them for their advertising.) But are there any other heart related businesses that would be willing to sponsor VR?

[hhardt]

I posted as a why pay for this type response. We have become a general gab site that has become too cumbersom for reading. Until some control over what is discussed (ie. virus to super bowl), it takes too much time to read. I'm doing well and thus have little to share, but I remember a long time ago when I needed information and support, and it was there. It is now difficult to tell who/which falls in that category, but usually lots of opinion on any topic and varies from that topic from post to post. I don't agree with many posts but have fallen into a why bother mode. That is bad and a symptom of something.

Any way, so much good has come from this site and could continue if it is under control - and free to new people with problems. I can take the adds, but I needed to sound off for control.

Comments?

[Zipper]

My views have been expressed by many already. I would need more info on how much the site cost to run, how much our current sponsor donates, etc. Once that is shared I would have the facts needed to make my decision.

Voluntary donations are the only reasonable way to keep the site available to all. Many can't afford to pay even tho the site provides the comfort and wisdom of all members.

Mandatory makes it seem like a 'closed door' site and would lose so many that could benefit from the members knowledge. I agree with those that said they'd have found info elsewhere if this was a mandatory fee site. Many members partake in minimal usage, while others are daily participants.

Quite a dilemma...........Zipper

[Christina]

I voted for an annual volunteery dues charge, but I would need to insist on an annual audit.
I also would like to see us stick exclusively to valvereplacement issues because as others already have mentioned, many of the messages have become too cumbersom for reading as a lot of it doesn't pertain to valvereplacement at all. (Birthdays, jokes etc.)
I have participated in this myself, but I just don't have the time to wish each and everyone of you a happy birthday when the day comes.
Instead of taking up unnessary space on the site with general chitchat back and forth, it would be better if we could discuss the lighter issues on the weekly chat on Sunday afternoon or Yahoo Messenger.
Many of us chat daily on Yahoo Messenger. I for one enjoy these chats a lot, and have participated and chatted with several of you since we started.

Comments?

[Karlynn]

My modus operandi - I log on, click "View New Posts" and then read those that grab my attention, for whatever reason.

I enjoy the chit chat and I think that's what the Small Talk forum is meant for. There are times when I don't have time to read those, so I just pass them by w/out any guilt. Same goes for the Birthday Wishes (which I think appear in Small Talk) If I have time, I post a quick note. I think the Small Talk forum helps give our members dimension to their personalities.

As far as the other forums, I don't read every post. I'm not much of an athlete, so the Active Lifestyle forum doesn't get much of my attention. If I'm short on time, I read the threads that appear to have a common issue for me. Other days, I'll read every derned post.

I guess I like the personality that the chit chat gives this site. If I wanted cold, impersonal advice, I could get that from 9 out of 10 doctors.:D

[weekycat]

I voted for voluntary dues. I really don't like banner ads, and I don't know how many people would actually click on them anyway. I don't EVER.

I've mentioned before that I am also a member of HysterSisters.com, (although I don't go there much anymore), and that site is the same type of forum as this one. What they do to raise money, is to have different levels of membership.. we could have a "Heart of Gold" level or a "Lionhearted" sponsorship level. Something on that order, and then each level would come with it's own perks, ie being able to have an avatar etc.

Just a thought, I like the fact that we can all post our avatars freely, but I thought I'd throw the idea out there.

[Les]

This site is only as "cumbersome" as one makes it. If these posts are too much reading, then I would assume even a paperback novel would take away from "valuable" time. I seriously doubt anyone is so busy in their lives that this site takes away from daily "productivity". If that were true, then you wouldn't even be logging on in the first place.
As you have the choice whether or not to read a book, you also have the choice to read all the posts, just a few, or none at all. No one is forcing anyone. That is why there are categories to select. Some are strictly serious and deal with heart realted issues. Some are much lighter. All of them are informative, whether medical, human interest, or just a simple birthday wish...of which several of us were almost robbed of any future ones. The fact is, this is a "cyber-community" which mimics real life. There are serious issues and much lighter ones....All a part of the natural flow. I do agree with accountability and would welcome the opportunity to contribute when the facts are made public.

[Bill Hall]

Hank - I know you have spent so much of your own time helping keep this site afloat. I think many of us would contribute as necessary to help with the finances. New members should not be asked for money, since they might think they are getting taken or maybe not use the site because they don't want to pay. So, I voted for a voluntary annual contribution.

[LUVMyBirman]

We all have a choice to read, post, etc or not. If it were not for the "lighter side"....life would be dull. We are all entitled to an opinion. This particular one seems to be shared by a few of us.

Heart surgery is very serious and at times it nice to take a break from that thought. Like Karlynn, Jean and Les pointed out...the "chit chat" is nice when time allows.

Don't feel anything we see here today should be wiped away. It's all part of the comradery that we share on VR.com.

Those of you whom have attended the reunions should recognize that aspect.:)

Hank, Thank you for all that you do and have done for us!

[Marge]

Now I can't remember whether I voted for periodic pleas or for voluntary annual dues. (I blame the Coreg.)

Sometimes I read the "chit-chat." Sometimes I don't.

Every board I was ever on (including political, travel, etc.) had a certain amount of what you might call chit chat or small talk if the people posting there had been around for any period of time at all. Makes it into a board of friends, a community, as well as a place to get information.

There are LOTS of medical informational sites on the 'net that give you information about valves, and by the time I got to this one, I had seen a number of them, including several message boards -- no site to compare with this one, though.

I think it is so valuable I would even poney up "mandatory" dues (if had to -- but am not sure this is the way to go if it drives too many others away). But I agree with the others who think there should be some accounting.

[kurli]

I voted voluntary only because if I had to pay to join and recieve support then I may as well be going to counselling. The thing I liked most about this site is that it is free advice and support from peopole in the same boat as you.
Alot of people including myself would have to stop visiting the site if we had to pay to join. I cannot afford that because having my surgury and heart probs makes it difficult to convince any one to give you employment.
I understand that these things need money to run and im sure anyone who can afford to will donate money. I would if i had any.
Dont stop us from being able to gain support from this wonderful site just because we cant afford it.

[SHerrin Hutt]

I feel that you should give the first timer a time liimit before they should have to pay. This might scare off new menber right away. All of us that have been around for awhile know how much this sight means to us. Not everyone can give the same amount for so reason or another. I would hate to see someone leave because they were able to give whatever set amount you all decide on. If I had it this web sight is worth more than I could ever give.
I what to thank Hank for all his time he has put in to it this sight and for the all the others who have helped in keeping it up and going.

Sherrin Hutt

[Abbanabba]

I cannot afford that because having my surgury and heart probs makes it difficult to convince any one to give you employment. I understand that these things need money to run and im sure anyone who can afford to will donate money. I would if i had any.

I think this is another valid point... I am now at the point where because I am waiting for surgery, I am unable to work, so money is very tight for me right now - which is pretty much when I am needing the most support.

I liked the idea Karlynn had of being able to donate anything from $5 - $100+ so those who can't afford a great deal can still feel they are contributing, and those who are earning more can perhaps donate a little extra. Also, I don't see any problem with requesting donations a couple of times a year, although the "Heart Day" suggestion is a great one.

Cheers
Anna : )

[Perrster]

Hank,

These are some very interesting replies. Your internet domain (family) is behind you with many good ideas as you make a decision on supporting the "life" of this site.

Getting funding from any source [other than the members of this forum] is no cakewalk.

Connecting with the megalithic medical corporations takes special skills (which I did not have when I did the t-shirt/sweatshirt fund-raiser over a year ago). I was turned down or ignored by the AHA, Dupont, MedicAlert, etc. with my formal requests asking for support that would have included their logos on the shirts. QAS and St. Jude Medical were the only "human" connections I could muster from any company. Even at that, we had members that bought shirts, but refused corporate logos on their shirts.

I'm behind you whatever you decide. In the meantime, a check is in the mail.

Regards,

[Jean]

I vote for voluntary donations around the Valentine's Day target...with reminders please. I would not like to see newcomers intimidated by fees.

I have very strong feelings about the "chit chat" issue. I have been a fairly active poster since summer of '01 (surgery 1-01). I feel like I know some of these folks and consider them dear friends albeit via cyberneighborhood. I am lucky enough to not have any remaining heart problems as long as my homograph cooperates, but I return almost daily to see what is cooking with my friends and in the process sometimes can contribute some info to someone who posts. If it weren't for the comradery, I don't think I would be checking the posts nearly so often. And then who would answer if others felt this way. If you don't see an interest in a certain post, don't read it. I don't check every post either. Don't take away our "chit chat". Thank you!

[Lisa]

I vote for annual voluntary dues. That way everyone can plan to contribute (if they can). You will know it's coming every year and budget accordingly. Just like we do for everything else in our lives. And if you can't contribute the 1st year, you have another whole year to save for the next drive.

[Marty]

Hank, I think its important we keep our contributions voluntary. We want to be inclusive not exclusive. Maybe around Feb 1 each year you could post a simple financial statement so we could see whats going in and how its going out. Then ask us to send our contribution if we are able. My top charities are DAV(disabled American veterans) and Salvation Army. They have a way of asking that makes you want to contribute. You could post a little
form with suggested contribution check blocks from $5.00 to $100.
On this form you might include a testimonial from someone who was helped . Let me know personally if there is anything I can do.

[Ben Smith]

I wouldn't be against some 'commercial' advertisement.

As long as the advertisers do not have any say in the forum or site.

But this would be a great place for some advertisers.

Hank, How many daily hits does the site get?

Ben

[Aunt Granny]

I support any method, but manditory memberships. I know for me if there had been a membership fee I would never have come in. I am a little afraid of the internet anyway. Not to mention that there are those out here that just can not afford another payment of ANY kind. For me now - I will be glad to contribute, but when I first came in I had WAY too much going on with me and my husbands disablilty to deal with another bill. Not that what yall do is not WORTH every penny and more that you could get. I just worry that those poor - cowards :p like me would be frightened off and not get the help that this place provides.:) . I recommend yall all the time to anyone who will listen. God Bless ALL of you!

[dwfreck]

For those of you who don't like the "chit chat":

I PROMISE that "Diary of a reformed snow shoveller" WILL stop as soon as the snow stops falling in Cincinnati and I WILL NOT start it again next year.

[Hank]

Hello Friends,

Thank you all for voting and expressing your views on the subject. I wanted to get a feel for what y'all thought about this topic and I have definately gotten what I wanted.

Now... Let me just say a few things.

1st - I will never mandate payment in order to access the forum and the informational areas of the site. I simply wanted to know what y'all thought of the idea.

2nd - I will not divulge to anyone the fees that companies pay to be sponsors of this site. That is between ValveReplacement.com and the sponsors.

3rd - I don't feel that I owe any kind of "auditing" or "accounting" information to anyone :( . This is simply a place that I created for people like us. I have personally solicited donations for myself on only one or two occasions in the four year history of this website. If you feel that the service you receive here is not worth paying for, then simply ignore any future requests for donations. We rarely get "something for nothing" in this life.


Ok - I'm glad I got that off my chest. My wires were stretching :D

Anyway - Thank you again for your input here. Keep it coming as I am sure that this post will spark some new debate.

As far as the "fluff" in this forum, It is really very simple.

If you post your messages in the proper forum, then it will be the expected content if someone enters said forum.

Do your Chit-Chatting in the "SmallTalk" forum.

Talk about heart stuff in the "HearTalk" forum.

Don't stray from the topic of the thread starting post. It is difficult and time consuming to move posts without moving the entire thread, but is manageable if an entire thread needs to be moved.

If you want to change the topic, then just please start a new thread and refer to it in the original thread.

I hate typing, but I love you all so I will cease the rhetoric.

[tommy]

Hank..........I love ya man! :)

[fyrfytr]

Hey Hank,
Tom took the words right out of my mouth!http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/c0/rotlaugh.gif
Take Care

[SHerrin Hutt]

Hey Hank,
You know most of us think what you do is the greatest. I just don't think some of these folks have got it yet.:confused: Your an ANGEL in my eyes. I am behide you 100% whatever you decide I know it is for the good of us all.

We all love you and Michelle & Family.:D



Sherrin Hutt
Valve repair 3/99
Valve replacement 5/02

[Harpoon]

Maybe I'm an odd man out on this, but then again maybe not...


I'd prefer the "campaign drive" approach rather than a membership fee.

My budget is very tight, I work but it's part time, never really more than 30 hours a week. My wife works full time and between us we bring home about $300-$400 a week if we're lucky, sometimes more if I work a lot or she has a bunch of overtime. We have a 4 year old son (well, he's two weeks shy of four anyways) and medical bills up the yin-yang because the company insurance would suck up half her paycheck and I don't have prescription drug coverage.


A LOT of people who have had or will have valve replacements aren't made of money. They're on tight incomes as well with a LOT of medical expenses over them.

I understand that there is a price for this forum, this service, however I would like to see other options such as voluntary contributions, explored first.

I would be more than willing to contribute some money, as my budget allows, to help keep this place going, but I can't afford a monthly membership fee and I'm sure there are others who couldn't either that really need a resource like this.


And for what it's worth, I could care less about the presence of advertizing banners. If they support the site and the products or services are relevant to valve replacement and related health issuses then I think they'd be more than appropriate.

[fisher6476]

First of all I would not be associated with this wonderfvul group had there been an "entrance fee" Even a guest pass early on would have turned me off. So much of what I see today is "free" if you only pay shipping and handlling. $25.00 to handle a small botlle of herbs?
Any way I don't want to see any mandatory fee associated with this site and I think Hank confirms he would never do that. I would favor a voluntary drive of some sort where we members can contribute as we can. I know of some on this site who's contributions are better than financial. I hope I don't offend anyone here as I certainly don't wish to but I watch with some fascination a lot of the TelEvangelists (sp) who appear with a TV show every morning telling us that if we just send 10% to God in care of them, that all will be well. If we will just send "seed money" to them a windfall of financial fortune will come our way.
I never here these preachers say go and comfort the sick, take care of your friends, be a friend to someone, spend time with the lonely, the old and the infirm. Contribute your time and help God's children. I know not all preachers are like this but my point is this. To me this site and the people in it are part of God's work.
I can not express what a huge difference you all have made in my life. I am not an overly emotional man, but somehow I know you understand what I am trying to say.. As a community I know we can keep this site going for our own good and more importantly for the good of all those to follow us. I like the way the site is set up so that we can talk about mortality rates, or the perfect skinny dipping weather, or "hey you guys, I have a hard time sleeping on my side. Is this normal?" It is what makes the cyberhall real.
Hank, I Love this place and all the folks in it. Let us know what we need to do and I know we will get her done.
Steve

[LUVMyBirman]

Bravo Paul! Best post I have read yet on this topic!
FYI....I do share your thoughts:)

Have a nice weekend.
PS. Where is Ashkum? I may have asked you before?

[Lorraine]

I voted for an annual voluntary dues which would be great to contribute on Valentines Day! Those that can give, it doesn't matter what the amount, big or small, it all adds up in the end. The fact is we would be giving from our hearts and for our hearts, to be able to keep our forum alive and well.

When I first logged onto this site I knew it was the greatest! Thank you Hank & Michele! We are our own community and we're serious , informative, helpful and we're playful and we're funny. No one has to read all the post if they don't want to. I view a lot when I get the chance but don't always get a chance to write.

The Chit Chat is great! We're all normal everyday people who someimes do just want to vent about the weather or tell jokes, talk about an unusual doctors appt etc... Again those that don't wish to view these don't have to.

"Diary of a reformed snow shoveller" is a riot! It's getting us through this unbearable winter with a laugh!

We are family on this site! We've all became very close. Those that have made it to the reunions know exactly what I mean. You just feel like you've always known each other, even though it's the first time you meet in person! It's such an AWESOME experience!

With that all said. I too will support whatever path Hanks chooses to take. This has been and will remain the best site I ever logged on to! God Bless!

[pegne]

to mandatory dues or donations I believe you will see the breakdown of VR. Voluntary donations are fine and I would definatly donate but I feel that if you stick just to the serious side of VR without the SMALL TALK you will lose members. The SMALL TALK is what I go to first. Even though I havn't dropped in as much lately as I used to (grandkids 6 days a week) I know it's there and there are so many other problems either physical or emotional connected to our various surgeries, but not directly related, that can be discussed in the SMALL TALK forum and lets face it guys, with all that's happened to us we need to just "lighten up" sometimes. The SMALL TALK forum lets us do that.

[Marge]

Hank ... you wrote:

<<I don't feel that I owe any kind of "auditing" or "accounting" information to anyone . >>

Just wanted to clarify -- since I was one of those who posted about making such accounting available -- I meant that ONLY in the case where there would be mandatory fees -- which you say that there will not be. Since this does not appear to be where we are headed (and I think it would be a mistake to go in the direction of a "Members Only" site) it is not an issue.

Once again, let me say: this is a marvellous site, and you deserve a great deal of appreciation and gratitude for maintaing it.

I will be glad to contribute (voluntarily) again.

[Karlynn]

Hank,
To bounce off what Marge just commented on - my interest in how much it costs to run this site is because if we stay with the unspecified donation approach it gives a clue to me as to how much would be enough to donate - $20 or $100?.

But since you don't feel comfortable letting us know if it costs $1000/year or $10,000/year, maybe the membership fee would be the way to go. If it's a voluntary membership fee, then my guess would be that there would be quite a few people that don't pay it. I've been in those circumstances before. What happens then is the leaders must continue to go to those who do pay the voluntary membership fee and ask for more. It creates discontentment and puts more stress on those running the show.

As far as those who wouldn't join if there was a fee - extend those joining a 2 month grace period for them to evaluate the sight and see if they feel it is worth their money. What bugs me a bit about some not willing to pay a fee (don't interpret "not able"), is that they don't put it in perspective. If it's a $50 membership fee - that's less than $.14 per day (Thanks for the heads up Al on my previous error.) I spend more money per year on things much less important to my health (My $3.99 Trader Joe's wine not included)

Bottom line for me is - I'm on board, no matter what you decide. Your work is very appreciated. I didn't mean to imply that you needed to be held accountable for the money expenses of the site - I was wanting to know so that what we helped you decided could be assured to not place any more financial burden on you.

[LUVMyBirman]

"extend those joining a 2 month grace period for them to evaluate the sight and see if they feel it is worth their money"

Karlynn, that is exactly the point I posted! Does not seem to far fetched to me.

Will have to wait and see what our great leader decides is best:) In it for the long haul regardless of the path :)

[Jennie]

I, personally, would HATE to see any sort of mandatory fees for this site, or bias or timeout period or not-be-able-to-post deal leveled against people who do not pay, for whatever reason. This is people's LIVES we are talking about. Many people who hit this site are in the middle of a severe, confusing crisis in their lives, with the clock ticking against them and many serious and difficult decisions to make, sometimes in the matter of weeks, sometimes feeling very ill. Have you been there? I've been there. Would you be able to deny support to someone who needs it? I can't imagine it. There's enough folks on this site who are hanging out here everyday who can donate. And I'm sure we will! But don't be pinging on the newbies, unless of course they want to contribute and are able to. And even some of the residents on this site are in pretty bad shape due to medical bills and inability to work and such. I would say, every three months or so, do a little campaign and say YO, we need some cash, and whoever's hanging around can throw some in the pot if they are able. My two cents. Just please don't make it mandatory. I think that just goes against who we are.

[bvdr]

I go with the voluntary dues and periodic pleas(e) for money.

I never knew what this site would mean to me when I posted my first post. I don't know if I would have joined if it involved a fee at that point.

[SHerrin Hutt]

I know that nothing worth anything in life is free. But I too! have been on SS Disabilty for the last six yrs. We still have a daughter in college. Mike hopes to retire in April if all goes well. I think he is a little scared for what it might bring, After 30 yrs you get used to a certain life style and when you retire you don't know what is in your furture. But I well give what ever I can because I feel this sight as been cheaper than a mental hosp. It just great to be able to talk to others who can understand what you have be through.
Hank, I have the nothing but repect for what you have done. I pray that this sight will be around for a long time. I could never replace the friends I have made here.


SHerrin Hutt
Valve repair 5/99
Valve replacement 3/02

[Susan BAV]

Hank -

I haven't read all the other comments yet so I hope I'm not repeating the others' thoughts. But, frankly, I don't know that I would have paid to get on this site when I first stumbled across it; I think the solicitation would have put me off. I think a person has to putter around on the site for quite awhile before they figure it out and realize the value of the information and the input of the members and their experiences. And then, how can a price be assigned to that value?!

How about a big, nonlobbying sponsor? Maybe someone (wealthy and/or famous) who might appreciate (the tax deduction of) contributing to this very worthy cause you founded, who has been through this ordeal, either personally or through a loved one's experience?

~Susan

[Jennie]

Wow, Susan, that is an interesting idea. Wouldn't it be wild if we could recruit Ahnold???!!! :)

[medtronic of borg]

There is a tax concern if you start charging, as in mandatory. Furthermore some of us have been forced into poverty d/t our illlness. We may not have any extra cash to give. I would suggest a voluntary memberships up to 500 posts. After that ..."we really would ask for donations from anyone." This would let new comers in and a little push for the rest of us. Further more I was thinking the other day of having a special necklace made looking like the well known purple heart of the military. Except that on the back of it we print medical info. in walet or what ever you want. We then start a campain across the nation to teach para medics and emts to recognise it and know what it means. If we need help with this we can join hands with other heart reated forums. As for having them manufatured, I think I have an in on that too. I would be intrested in knowing everyones thought!!

Med

[sylviayasgur]

i tend to agree with those who opposed a mandatory membership fee. i remember when i first came onto this site and immediately felt welcomed and taken in as part of this "family".
i would hate for any newcomer to feel any differently. open doors here are what makes this place so "approachable" in difficult times_ when no one else understands.
i know and trust hank (and michelle) will make the right choice in deciding what to do about additional funding.
i don't think there is anything wrong with asking for voluntary donations, either annually or on a regular basis.
those who are able and willing to contribute will, and those who are unabe to do so won't.
i also agree with those who said that you can select what "chit chat" you might want to read_ it is precisely that "chit chat" that often keeps things light amidst serious situations. most people enter this site with different ideas and expectations. that's what makes this place so special.
some of us have really become friends; others have no real interest in socializing and come for the valuable info.
neither is right or wrong_ it's very personal , as with valve choices.
hank, you've done an unbelievable job up to now. i trust that you will use that same good judgement; i leave it up to you.
be well all, sylvia

[ALCapshaw2]

I too believe that *mandatory fees* would damage or ruin VR.com

I think the best approach would be a statement something like:

"If you have been helped by your experience on VavleReplacement.com, please consider making a dontation to help perpetuate it's operation."

I'm not sure where it should be placed, but like many others, I never see the 'main page' because I jump immediately to the "new posts'.

I also believe it would be useful and helpful to potential donors to have some idea of what annual *costs* are involved in maintaining this site. Also, some idea of how many man hours are involved in maintaining the hardware and software that makes all this possible. I see no problem in maintaining confidentiality about income from advertisers.

Specific requests which detail the amount needed and it's intended purpose would seem to meet the least resistance. Again, clarifying the need would resolve a LOT of unnecessary discussion if we are talking modest amounts (say 10 or 20 $$ per year) IMHO, the larger the need, the more it needs to be justified.

I see a potential problem with the following opinion / recommendation:

"I would suggest a voluntary memberships up to 500 posts. After that ..."we really would ask for donations from anyone."

That places the burden on those who do most of the contributing vs. those who benefit from the information / advise given. It very well may 'run off' some of the 'old timers' and major contributors (of time, effort, compassion, and advice), or at least give them cause to pause...

That's my 2 cents worth.

'AL Capshaw'

[Davidcv67]

This needs to be open to all or no one will be here. Voluntary is the way to go. The people who use it a lot WILL contribute. Also can you mix that with SOME banner ads?

Dave

[Gemma]

I'm of the opinion, like many here I think, that periodic reminders to make a donation would be best - find those banners SO annoying and I know I would have been put off if I couldn't get the valuable information everybody here has so willingly shared without paying a subscription fee. Of course the website can't just run itself though so why not ask those who can contribute to do so, and accept that not everyone is in a position to be able to pay?
There are loads of sites where you can get just the "medical" stuff - the small talk forum is there for a reason, it reminds us there is more to life than valve replacement - and it does mirror real life. I'm sure nobody goes round 24/7 worrying about their or their loved one's valves. We couldn't function like that. It's nice to know there's usually someone online who can reply to your post no matter whether you need to decide on which valve to use, where to have surgery, what type of pillows will be best, how to shovel snow...!!! The reason I keep coming back is I know that I'm sharing experiences with real people, not just some fact sheet. And if all you want is solid facts, you can just bypass the small talk forum!

[shana23]

I'd love to donnate but as befor I'll have to send you Euro!!!!What ever no problem for me matter of fact any way I can order from the store ???I don't want to use a credit card on the web but I don't know how to get a payment to you from Italy.Any ideas???Shana23

[Tony]

I think I read somewhere that only 4% of the revenues to Cafe Press goes to Valvereplacement .com.

I too do not like to use credit cards online as I question the security so I sent a check direct to Hank.

This also may not be a good idea as Hank may be flooded with personal checks.

So my question to Hank is: What are acceptable ways to contribute?



:(

[Raverlaw]

I just found this thread, and see that it has been going a while, but I'll "contribute" by throwing my opinion in, too.

I love this site and would support it if I had some basic information on what it costs to keep it running. I know that if it was a mandatory membership site, I would have passed right over it in the beginning. I've joined those in the past and have been sorely disappointed. I think membership would really reduce the number of members and discourage new members or the occasional user.

501(c)(3) organization is a great idea, but it can be tricky and there are some costs involved up front unless you find a volunteer to do it for you. There are some good "how-to" books on the subject, though. I don't object to targeted banner ads, but let's restrict them to the home page, or to a "links" page for those who are interested. I think the valve manufacturers, big heart centers, home tester manufacturers, etc. might be interested if the ad rates were reasonable. I don't usually click on ads, but sometimes will, particularly if the company is identified in the ad so I can have some assurance that I'm not going off into pop-up hell.

[Kevin M]

I think we need some context here. How much are we talking about annually? This has much bearing on which option I would vote for.

Personally, I don't care to see actual statements showing costs, etc. but if I had an idea of how much is needed, I could better understand the need.
Kev

[Ross]

Now let's see here,
VR corporate jet and crew $6.5 million
Get out of jail free cards for all reunion attendees $ 10 thousand
Special events $25 thousand

Um, I'd say $10 million would about cover it! :D

[SHerrin Hutt]

Hey Ross,
You forgot you and Hank hourly wages. I got a real kick out of your posting. What about that gold toliet seat.:D


Sherrin Hutt

[Ross]

Ask and you shall receive!

[Hank]

Let me ask my kids how much an hours worth of my time is to them?

[Karlynn]

Hank,
It might go something like this -
Age 5 Dad's time is worth $5000/hour
Age 10 $500/hour
Age 13 $50/hour
Age 16 - they pay someone to get you out of their hair.

:D

But we all know a parent's time with a child is priceless. (And the 16 year-olds know it, they just would rather die than admit it.)

[Blanche]

Please keep the board open to all, uncensored and without deletions. I voted for voluntary contributions. As a gesture of good faith, I will pledge an annual contribution of $104.00. Additionally, if something is needed for an administrator or member, I will provide a voluntary contribution with an amount that will suit my budget. I can't get my hair done, go to a movie, rent a movie, go bowling, buy a book at the Goodwill, or get out of Starbucks for $2.00 a week. My $2.00 contribution will certainly give me a bigger bang for my buck here. The quality of my life and that of my spouse has changed because of this board. And, the humor is priceless. That's good enough for me.

Speaking only for myself, I have no need for actual costs, accountings, details of expendatures, explanations of accounts, or estimates of person-hours, or any other illucidation. None of that is any of my business. I also don't give a big, fuzzy rat's behind what others do about contributions and feel nothing one way or the other about those who choose, be they millionaires or pulpers, to donate a big fat zero. I have trouble enough dealing with my own actions and sense of what is right and what is equitable to attempt to interfere with another being's choices.

I'm finally wondering what ever happened to free enterprise, which of course isn't free. In real time, people don't value those things they don't pay for. That's why many activities by non-profits and others charge a small fee for service or performance. Yet, here on the net people are suspect if a fee is requested.

I would like Hank to be able to expect a certain income from the accomplishment here to use as he wishes for his interest and his family's benefit. This board is a miracle, and Hank created it and his mission, vision, and goals continue to drive and ensure the success of VR.com. No price can be placed on the time he could be spending with his family, and no price can be placed on the inspiration and direction that he countinues to maintain. That does not include the expertise it took to set up this place and maintain it. I recently paid a computer tech $69.00 an hour, the going rate here, and he created more problems than he solved.

That's my perspective and I'm sticking to it. Let your conscience be your guide.

Regards,
Blanche

"...paved paradise and put up a parking lot..."

[tommy]

Blanche,

BINGO!!! :)

Golly you said that well.

[Ross]

Well Blanche, I don't have a big fuzzy rats behind, but will this do?

[SJJ]

Blanche,
If I ever need someone to state my case, I'm lookin' you up!

Ross,
Who would ever think that a valve replacement website was where I could count on getting my daily yuk yuk? Thanks for the many laughs you provided...always the best medicine!

Sue

[SHerrin Hutt]

Hi Ross,
You sure know how to get this bunch a great chuckle for the day:D And for the time you spend with your kids is priceless!!!! My girls are 21& 30 and after my 2 heart surgeries .I know that every minute is a gift from a higher power. My family is the most important thing to me.

SHerrin Hutt
Valve repair 5/99
Valve replacement 3/02

[weekycat]

Good Job Blanche,

Amen! You said exactly what I was thinking, but you expressed it much more eloquently than I ever could have!

I don't want to make promises that I can't keep however, so I'll stop short of making a pledge, but I will certainly send what I can, when I can send it.

[hensylee]

I didn't vote - But now that the question has been posed, answered, discussed, taken apart, put back together and most have had their say, guess I will add just one little thing. Now that the situation has been put forth, I bet Hank has received quite a few checks. Most folks don't even realize that the site has to be paid for - never given it a thought. But it does. Hank has family responsibilities like everybody else in here, but he fulfilled his dream for valve replacement patients because he couldn't find anything before his own surgery and it COSTS. He has given back for his own personal success in creating this site. I, too, have been remiss in sending a check, but used to mention from time to time to all that we needed to help support and I did. Sorry, Hank. I will try to do better.

So in view of reading what some have said, and the response from all, shall we, in turn, remind members that we need to send a check? Maybe every couple of months? Anybody? That way, Hank wouldn't have to say a word because we, as members, would speak in his behalf. What do you say?

P.S. the cost to Hank is his own persnal business. I wouldn't ask you how much your mortgage is, nor your electric bill. We don't need to know.

[2hartsas1]

We live on disability and food stamps. We receive $700.00 a month.
Rent is $500.00, plus lights, phone, computer,water, cable.......I can honestly tell you that we have NO funds for contribution. We barely scrape by on what we have.
I would hate to lose this site for any reason, but I know I cannot contribute financially.
~Shirley (& Victor)

[hensylee]

Shirley, I don't think you have a thing to worry about. There are some of us who simply cannot afford to contribute financially to the site. Hank has promised that the site will be available to everybody, regardless of whether they are able to pay anything or not. But most members CAN afford to contribute something. Those are the ones we speak of in this thread. Bless you and keep on doing what you do.

[SJJ]

Hi guys. I've been waiting for some final decision to be made requiring monies-dues, contributions, whatever. I'd like to go ahead and make my contribution. Doesn't look like the PayPal account is set up to take American EXpress, which is the only credit card source I'm set for with PayPal. I can do a direct bank transfer or I can mail a check if someone could provide me a mailing address. If a check is mailed, who is the preferred payee? Thanks for the assist.
Sue

[LUVMyBirman]

Periodic pleas for donations from ValveReplacement.com. is a close second.

Donations could be requested around Valentines Day on a yearly basis! Great idea whomever put that up.

[Ben Smith]

I believe the voluntary donations are the way to go.
However, that brings up the point of receipts for tax purposes. I don't mean to sound like the miser here. Just an additional point of interest.

I asked early on as to the number of hits the site gets daily...I think that number would be of interest to potential advertisers....... and would satisfy my curiosity (hehehe). (limited advertisers)

I do, agree with Hank that he should not have to post any financial information concerning the site and it's advertisers !
However, There is a great point being querried......how much is enough to donate. If all 800 members sent $5.00 that would give Hank $4,000.00 to assist in paying for the site and HIS TIME. Is that sufficient or would $10.00 be needed to cover the costs. (of course at these donation amounts, receipts are pointless and just drive up costs)

(Obviously, I understand some can not pay anything at all and they should not be expected to.)

I have no problem investing in this site, due directly to the benefits I have received. I just think it would help each of us who can donate, know how much is appropriate.

Just my $0.02.

Take care,

Ben

[Kevin M]

There have been some great points made here.
After reading some of the comments, it made me
think about this differently.

I think I like the idea of voluntary annual dues.
I like it because those of use who can afford to pitch in will
look at it like any other paid service (like virus-scanning software - incidentally, if you don't have any, please get some).

Then we can pay the amount and hopefully help Hank out.

It's one of those out-of-sight-out-of-mind things. If I'm not
reminded to pay anything, I do not think of it - even though
I am more than willing to do so.

No matter what, I think it's important that something happens
to take some money out of our pockets and help Hank cover off his costs and time.
Kev

[hensylee]

Those of you who want to contribute directly via regular mail, let Hank know and he will mail you his address via a private message right here in VR. That's what I used to do and now I can have my bank send it by online payment.

Hank, I think Sue might want your address...........and the payee

[2hartsas1]

Whew! Thanks honey!
Not sure what it is I "do".....but I can guarantee....I'm gonna keep on! :D :D
~Shirley (& Victor)

[hensylee]

Shirley - you support and swap information - just like everybody does. That's what this site is all about. Wonderful, huh?

[Hank]

Sometime this week I will be creating a new forum pertaining to membership contributions. It will have all complete payment information including where to send voluntary payments.

This new forum will also be the place where we have these types of discussions after I get it set up.

I just have a few more decisions to make and then you will see it up and ready to rock.;)

[Granbonny]

I love the idea of a NEW forum..reminding all of us..where to send contributions.That way..We will ALL be reminded..Not just once a year..and all newbies will see it. GREAT idea:) :) :) Maybe you need a P.O. Box..so your home address can stay private.:D Thanks again..Bonnie

[Ross]

Maybe you need a P.O. Box..so your home address can stay private. Oh no, not until I get him back. It may take me my lifetime, but I will find a way! :)

[ShezaGirlie]

You took the words right outta my mouth Blanche...:D

[Sherry]

Hello, Hank,
Let me add to the plethora of responses here -- I've been with you and the forum since the very beginning (back in the e-mail days). I truly wish that I would have had the support of this group when my own health was failing back in the spring of 1997, but I didn't. Nevertheless, I've really enjoyed being a part of this online community of people just like me and will donate whether it's mandatory or voluntary. I believe most of us could handle a small donation/fee. Some of us, myself included, could probably donate a little more and possibly sponsor someone who couldn't afford to pay.
I teach, am taking 9 hours of graduate work, and run my two boys to a dozen or so activities every week, but when I have a few precious moments, I love to get on this board and hook up with all the wonderful members and even offer advice when I feel it's worthwhile. As to any suggestion that the various forums are too overwhelming, I disagree. I love joking around on the "small talk" board; and the great thing about it is that if you don't have time to go there, then don't. Long winded, I know, but whatever you need, Hank, just let us know. You and Ross are such wonderful souls for maintaining this site for us. Peace, all.

[doberman]

I think periodic pleas for donations is a good way to start, perhaps you need to make the link to the donation page more prominent, or add a banner at the top of the forums page that flashes "how to help". Some folks like myself need a little reminding now and then.
Good Luck

[Granbonny]

Wow, you brought up an old thread..Thank you... ;) Maybe you didn't see the above 2 on Member fees, donations, fundraising..My last one was reminding people for a December donation...Sad, 0 replies..30 views in last week.....In fact ..there has only been a measy 11 threads..compared to..#1 Small talk...2,559...Heart talk...2,063 and Post surgery 1,372 and down the list to pre-surgery, ect..... I'm thinking that Hank and Ross should move this thread up to the TOP...of the Forum..That way..people would see it.. :p :p ..Hank has given yall..all kinds of ways to donate...Paypal, his home address, ect...Anything from $5.00 and up..will help him keep VR.Com going... Ross..Maybe you can make it a STICKY thread? AT THE TOP..of VR.com?....Thanks to Mary and Ann (Hensylee)..that help with posting to remind everyone...but, we can only do so much. :( Again, John, thanks for posting on this tread..Maybe it will remind people who can help..to send a little in ....Bonnie

[hensylee]

"I have noticed a pattern on this site that has avoided transparency about how much the site (including personnel needed to run it!) actually costs- and, there is an opinion that people should just donate because Hank is such a great guy. Well I did donate here because Hank is such a great guy, but I think Hank would come out ahead in the long run if he makes the leap into either non-profit or commercialism"

Hank did discuss this with us once before. He said he isn't going to discuss it.

[hensylee]

I have been searching, but got tired of looking. However, you, I think, were part of that thread where Hank told us that he is the sole owner and the expenses are his and not ours to know about - and if we want to share some of that expense, it is up to us. Not required, mind you, but helpful if we care to contribute. That post might be in this thread but I don't want to hunt it anymore - this is post #99, I think, in this particular thread. Maybe someone else will recall or know how to search for that post.

[SHerrin Hutt]

Hi All
I found Hank posting on the second page and the posting was #41. He states how he fells about all this stuff.

[Eowyn Rose]

hi Hank,
Firstly, thanks for this very helpful site. It makes my recovery so much easier. I joined very recently during the time I need support. I would like to see that the contributions are voluntry. Most people come to this site when they are made aware that they have to have valve replacement or just had it. This is a time when med. bills are coming in and no earnings. So not to worry about paying money when times are though and getting great support is such a welcomed gift.
I also like to have an indication how much money would be needed from each member each year to run this site succesfully for all of us.
Payment may be made on members birthdays, so donation will come in throughout the year.
Thanks again
Eowyn Rose

[Hank]

I, and my lovely Wife are discussing how we think this whole issue with Donations/Dues/Fees should work.

We will be sharing with all of you our opinions soon...

Thank you for your continued interest in the topic.

[Marty]

My club annually asks fo a voluntary pledge at Christmas for an employee bonus. In the last newsletter I was informed 1818 members out of total membership of 2625 agreed to contribute $ 410,000! I think the idea for a voluntary contribution every February heart day is a good one. I also think a suggested amount would be helpful ( our club suggests one month dues). I too would be intersted in a financial statement from vr.com. The club publishes one monthly in the Newsletter.

[Blanche]

but it sure does rhyme....This is what I had to say about this issue nearly a year ago, and I don't mind repeating myself. Think about this. How much could be obtained by opening this board to advertisers? What would this do to the board? How much $$$ could be made if the board were to be sold???
What would happen then? Look into your HEART and give what you decide and stop the bickering. You can't put a price on something that is priceless.

Please keep the board open to all, uncensored and without deletions. I voted for voluntary contributions. As a gesture of good faith, I will pledge an annual contribution of $104.00. Additionally, if something is needed for an administrator or member, I will provide a voluntary contribution with an amount that will suit my budget. I can't get my hair done, go to a movie, rent a movie, go bowling, buy a book at the Goodwill, or get out of Starbucks for $2.00 a week. My $2.00 contribution will certainly give me a bigger bang for my buck here. The quality of my life and that of my spouse has changed because of this board. And, the humor is priceless. That's good enough for me.

Speaking only for myself, I have no need for actual costs, accountings, details of expendatures, explanations of accounts, or estimates of person-hours, or any other illucidation. None of that is any of my business. I also don't give a big, fuzzy rat's behind what others do about contributions and feel nothing one way or the other about those who choose, be they millionaires or pulpers, to donate a big fat zero. I have trouble enough dealing with my own actions and sense of what is right and what is equitable to attempt to interfere with another being's choices.

I'm finally wondering what ever happened to free enterprise, which of course isn't free. In real time, people don't value those things they don't pay for. That's why many activities by non-profits and others charge a small fee for service or performance. Yet, here on the net people are suspect if a fee is requested.

I would like Hank to be able to expect a certain income from the accomplishment here to use as he wishes for his interest and his family's benefit. This board is a miracle, and Hank created it and his mission, vision, and goals continue to drive and ensure the success of VR.com. No price can be placed on the time he could be spending with his family, and no price can be placed on the inspiration and direction that he countinues to maintain. That does not include the expertise it took to set up this place and maintain it. I recently paid a computer tech $69.00 an hour, the going rate here, and he created more problems than he solved.

That's my perspective and I'm sticking to it. Let your conscience be your guide.

Regards,
Blanche

"...paved paradise and put up a parking lot..."

[Hank]

Thank you Blanche for those kind and well put words.

I second what you said.

I thank you for being ONE of the most loyal members this sight has ever known.

[ShezaGirlie]

You took the words right outta my mouth Blanche...

[SHerrin Hutt]

ME tOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know most of theses people have no ideal what it takes to keep this sight up and going. Only Hank & Ross know what it takes and maybe a few commuter geeks. (sorry no harm intended) I wish I knew more. But the knowledge and the friends we've make here no $$$$$ amount can been put on this sight. I give what I can and pray it's enough to keep this sight going.I give Hank & family-& Ross the angels of the year award for keeping us going.I have never meet Ross but I have meet Hank& Michelle and I know their hearts are bigger than any of our wallets. I know that is not what this sight has been all about. But it takes $$$$$$$$ to keep anything going.

[geebee]

I have come to consider VR.com and its members as my friends. I am always willing to help out friends whenever it is needed. I have donated to VR.com and I hope most others do as well. Just like friends, some folks have more than others and therefore may be inclined to help a little more.
I would hope that, as friends, VR.com would ask for help if things were really tight. Otherwise, I believe Hank, et al, deserve whatever financial gain (if any) that is derived from sponsors, donations, etc. for maintaining this wonderful site. I hope that financial gain is significant as the help I have received is significant and I would never presume to put a price on it.
Hank, Ross and anyone else involved, thank you for VR.com. Members, thank you for allowing me into the family.

[Ross]

You folks need not thank me for any of this. This is all Hanks baby, so do the up talking to him! Ross is merely the defender of good and evil on the site and occasionally some story telling, tear wiping, smile inducing and making of friendships. ;)

[geebee]

Ross,
You can be as humble as you like but I think you belittle yourself. Don't get me wrong, I am extremely grateful to Hank for starting this website but you are a huge part of what keeps it going and keeps it stable. You intervene when needed and do it nicely and professionally. To say nothing of the experiences you bring to the site. So my thanks stand.

[Granbonny]

Please do not belittle yourself. All one has to do is look at the number of your posts.....6,950.. :) :) You are here everyday and most nights, too. :D :D Name me one other member that is more dedicated to Valvereplacement.com than you....You have even doubled me.. :p :p ... You are always posting to cheer people up...and with your many health problems, you never complain..I admire that in you. :) :) so..never, never, say..that you are not important to this site.. I love you..as Many, many others on VR.... :) and I believe our Birthday boy..has a birthday coming up very soon. :D so, you only have to wait to see how MANY well-wishes you get........I agree with Marty..that this would be a good time to donate..Feb. 14th HEART DAY...Bonnie

[Eowyn Rose]

Ross the defender of good and evil, the tear wiper, the friendship maker, the smile inducer. Sound a lot like you are the heart of this site.
Hank and you are like Sir Edmung Hillary and Tenzing Norgay it needed both to make it to the summit. Both of you do us such a great service.
Humble thanks
Eowyn Rose

[Eowyn Rose]

I need to add that I want Hank make a profit running this site. I absolutely agree with Blanche on every point, and i am glad she gave me an indication on a Donation amount.
Thanks
Eowyn Rose

[Sherry]

I had the good pleasure to eat and converse with Hank and Michelle this year in Golden, as well as many other awesome members. My hat's off to him for having the vision to create and maintain this extremely valuable site. I'll donate no matter what (which reminds me, I need to get a check off this month :o ) What Hank's given us here is priceless and is worth paying for, if one can afford it. If someone is out of work and up to his/her ears in medical bills, then that's understandable: it's voluntary; send money if you can.

Hank, you and Michelle are awesome in my eyes. No accounting is necessary for me. Peace, all...

[geebee]

Frankly I don't think it really matters whether this is nonprofit or for profit. This website is obviously one that we all feel is wonderful, helpful, powerful and necessary. If we are able and we see the value (which seems apparent to me), we should donate what we can to make sure it continues. I would never want Hank to be in a position where he feels he cannot maintain the site. I have never felt pressured to donate, I merely do because I gain so much from being a member that giving money is my way of saying thanks.
I truly understand that not everyone has extra funds. Perhaps the very nature of the members indicate financial hardship due to medical expenses. I have had such hard times myself. My last OHS was done without insurance and it took me over 5 years to pay everything back. I am lucky that I got beyond that and I thank God every chance I get for leading me to the great life I have now.
This website is on my regular list of donations. I pass out food to homeless people and never care how much they get from others. It makes me feel good to be helpful.
Be grateful this wonderful place is here to visit and give what you can be it money or advice or simply a kind word.

[hensylee]

I have just noticed that one morning recently there were 351 people viewing this site at one time. That is just awesome. I remember when I joined, it was probably the first site after the e-mails. To find an answer to your post, you had to scroll down til you found it. Look at the site now. It is plumb uptown.

My son has a site and I know he paid lots of $ for it and has to pay continuously in order to maintain it. He is the owner of the site; the expense is his. I would never ask him what he pays for it. Same with Hank.

We have the privilege of reading/posting in the site. We learn and like Ross, we do all those other things like laughing and crying - and venting - and sharing.

Thanks, Hank and Michelle. Blessins to you both......

[Mary]

If we're going to revisit this thread, why don't you open the poll back up? It seems fruitless to keep the conversation going without an opportunity to GO TO THE POLLS!
If not, I still maintain voluntary contributions are the way to go. We've had several excellent suggestions. Marty suggests an annual appeal in February and someone else (sorry, I can't find it off hand) suggests it take place around our birthdays/and or join date.
I believe that new people join unaware that donations are solicited; then one day, they read a post about a donation; FREAK OUT because it's the first time they realize others are making donations. That's what happened to me. I read all the threads trying to determine what amount was being given, how often, blah, blah, blah. I felt guilty as all get-out because I thought I wasn't doing my fair share.
Finally I decided to send about 1/10 of what I would be paying in montly psychiatric care if I hadn't found VR, and have sent about that amount every month since. Maybe I'm in the minority. I believe I was member #889 ?, and we've added another 500 or so since I joined in April (give or take a banned member here or there :D :D :D ). You've approximately doubled your size since the poll was taken; you could see what the current majority thinks.
Or you could just issue your own "politically correct" edict, which is really what I would prefer, and let everyone get back to the topic at hand--the reason we're all here--valve replacement.

[Hank]

Hello friends,

I have been reading this thread with great interest.

Thank you all so much for your comments and input and feedback.

I have not commented on this topic recently because I have been doing a lot of pondering of the right path to take for the best future of VR.com.

It's a good idea to re-open the poll and I will do so right now.

Stay tuned for some final comments to this topic in the very near future...

You are all awesome....

[geebee]

I voted annual voluntary. However, I would like to see the option of paying for annual dues in quarterly installments or something like that. I think that would make it a bit easier for some folks who may not have the money available all at one time.
Hank, thanks for reopening the poll for those of us who did not get a chance to vote the first time.

[Susan BAV]

I haven't voted, Hank. I definitely want to make a contribution though, but it would be a nice plus if it were tax deductible for us VR.Commers. I remember some time ago you saying something about an extremely lengthy application for that status, however, and sometimes it is surely better to stay "out of the loop." Or that's my theory anyway.

You may recall how I feel about this terrific site that you founded, Hank. I think it was probably life-saving in my case. My husband and I are about to celebrate our 25th wedding anniversary and we are so very happy that we can do that. I guess I'll just have to fire off a contribution to you all and forget the deduction for now.

Best wishes to you and your family. And thank you :) !

[brendamarlene]

I have been using the site for a while and I have not been asked for a donation. I would be happy to make a donation (and now I have found out how, I will!). I was on this site several years ago, and I made a donation at that time. But back then the site was much less sophisticated.

I definitely think you should provide some information about all of your costs, and how much it takes to run this site. And also how much $$$ has been donated so far. That would be helpful.

Thank you, Hank, again and again for this site

[Gemma]

Just a quick thought for anyone who may be reading this thread and still pondering what to do -
If you are registered with Amazon for book buying etc, you can use their link on the contributions page (accessed from the VR.com homepage) to make a donation and all your credit card info is already inputted. Much easier than having to set up a Paypal account. I made a donation last week through Amazon as I'm finally in a position where I had some spare cash at the end of the month :) . It pays to budget!
Also - it tells you there what the goal amount is (I guess that varies throughout the year according to what fees need paying and stuff), and it would take less than a third of all VR members donating $1 each to reach the current goal. Nobody should feel pressurised into donating money they don't have, but I'm sure that goal could be fairly easily achieved.
(Of course, I'm not sure if the Amazon goal takes into account donations by other methods).
Gemma.

[bear]

I feel a volutary approach would be great with possible gifts for incentives. ( It doesn't have to be much.) Also with a site this wonderful and helpful why couldn't a person apply for some kind of grant under non pofit, surely there must be someone that knows if this could be an option. I haven't been a member long but already benefited from the support of the members.

[Debrinha GT]

Hi Hank. We love your site and we can donate from time to time. We can't make permanent regular donations that are compulsory, but we can make the occasional donation. My husband knows a guy from HSBC that can arrange for the occasional transfer abroad. Would that be intersting for you? That's my proposal for now. I await your reply.

BTW, what are the changes you have in mind for the site? Do they include larger text in the sunday night chat? You may remember that I am visually handicapped.

Thanks for now,

Débora

[Debrinha GT]

I understand that this site was created with one thing in mind, heart issues, but I myself have benefited from the small talk topics and asked for your advice on many issues that although not heart related, have made a big difference to my emotional state on the occasion thus making things easier on my heart as well. On the sunday night chat room we do talk about several things, but with so many people wanting to talk about various things, it's impossible to stick to one subject for long. As well as that, what I've noticed is that most members prefer a relaxing chat rather than the usual stuff we discuss on the forums. I'm not in favour of changing that aspect of the site. Thanks again for reading.
Débora

[SHerrin Hutt]

I am thinkd banners are not a bad ideal either. But if ever member would just give a little when they could it would be great. With the current meembership I think a small donation would help keep his sight going without much problem. But I think this sight gives me so much more than I can give in money. But I give what I can. I just hope that is enough to keep it going. The knowledege and friendship is priceless as far as I am concern.