Questions About Home Testing

[Tom Harrison]

This is new to me. What are the differences between them in how they work and cost??

[QAS]

Dear Tom,

Please call the above numbers to receive information on the products. We have different departments at QAS to handle each product separately. This has always been a QAS ProTime sponsored site, and we wish to continue with this monitor. The ProTime division monitors this page, so please call the above numbers for further details. Thanks,

Lance

[lcwhitney]

I have two questions regarding the home testing

How long does it usually take to get insurance approval for coverage?

Generally what is the yearly cost of home testing after you have the machine?

Lettitia

[Michele]

Lettitia,

It really depends on your insurance company as to how long it will take to get it approved - it could take 2 weeks or it could take a few months.

As far as cost of testing, it depends how often you are testing. Your testing supplies are one-time use only. Usually if your insurance covers the monitor they will cover supplies.

[Blanche]

Lettitia:
Insurance didn't cover Albert's machine, so we paid for the machine and for supplies. I've been told that the machine now costs $2,000. It was about $1,200 - $1,500 when Al got his. The supplies have gone up to $300. for 25 tests. Let's hope your insurance will cover the machine. Going it alone is an expensive proposition, but it is well worth it.
Blanche

[ALCapshaw2]

"I've been told that the machine now costs $2,000. It was about $1,200 - $1,500 when Al got his. The supplies have gone up to $300. for 25 tests. Let's hope your insurance will cover the machine. Going it alone is an expensive proposition, but it is well worth it. "

Hmmm.....Sounds like a case of 'charge what the market will bear'... Let's see, Coaguchek discovers that the Protime Units are selling for $2000 and the test strips are going for $12 each and suddenly Coaguchek is charging the same. Interesting.
Does this constitute price fixing, or is it just an example of a free market finding it's level?

'AL'

[Michele]

Just like everything else in the world - the ProTime prices have gone up.

The retail prices that we offer for our monitor and supplies are prices that are set from the manufacturer. We are the distributor not the manufacturer.

A lot of time and money goes into getting the monitor approved for insurance sometimes it can be a lengthy process with us having to go to appeals for our patients. However, we have a very good success rate at getting approvals.

If you wanted to purchase the ProTime on your own you will see on our website that we offer a 25% discount. If anyone needs further information, please contact me at 1-800-298-4515, x 2616.

[jwswaco]

You can also pick up a box of 25 cuvettes for $135.00 at various medical supply houses on the net or locally. They are shipped overnight with ice packs.

If I get them locally, my insurance covers 90%. With QAS they only cover 70%.


Cheers!

[Zipper]

Hi,

Can you share with us a net address that the cuvettes can be purchased ? Thanks!:)

[jwswaco]

I used Hanson Medical at

Good Luck!www.hansonmedicalsystems.com (http://www.hansonmedicalsystems.com)

[Michele]

Thanks for the information! We've been looking for companies that have been doing this illegally according to FDA and the manufacturer guidelines. That price you were quoted is for professionals (physicians) who buy in volume -- not for patient use.

To purchase cuvettes legally you would have to buy from a company that is licensed to sell to patients. You also have to get a new prescription from your doctor for supplies to send to them so they can keep in their files in case they were ever audited.

If you ever have a technical support issue with your cuvettes and we would have to provide information about the lot number of your cuvettes to the manufacturer the company that sold the supplies to you could potentially be in trouble.

[jwswaco]

$300.00 - $135.00 = $165.00 Come on!!! If ITC is making money by selling to Doctors for $135.00, then I am sure YOUR price is even lower (and we wonder why insurance is so expensive)!!!

I did not know it would be illegal, but, I am sure it is just as illegal for people to go to Canada and Mexico for medications. You don't see that stopping now, do you?

You may want to start checking all the medical supply houses in the US. Since, after placing my order with Hanson, I contacted local supply houses and was told that they could also supply the cuvettes.

I did call QAS before ordering from Hanson, asking them why the great price difference. The person answering the phone (no, I did not get her name) told me she had no idea why the price was so high. She even suggested that if I could find them cheaper, to go for it.... I did!

James

[Zipper]

Thank You James!

I find this wide difference in price quite interesting. No wonder my insurance will not pay! I plan to check other medical supply houses and see what their policy is and their view on the legality issue. I think you've provided this forum with information worth looking into.

Zipper :)

[Hank]

One thing that you will find with QAS is their quality and customer service is a cut above the rest.

Home INR testing is a vital part of life for those on anticoagulant therapy. Where one obtains their supplies should be more than a matter of cost. There are issues with product storage, reliability and FDA authorization and such.

It would be a decisive factor to me to know that I was choosing to buy from a company that strives to be the best in these areas.


Price isn't everything.

[Michele]

Thanks Hank,

You are correct in what you write. We pride ourselves in our customer service. If anybody has technical problems with their monitor or their cuvettes we have 24-hour technical support. We also do insurance billing for the patients as well.

We are a distributor and the prices for the cuvettes are set by the manufacturer - a price for patients (prescription required) and a bulk price for physicians as they buy supplies for all their patients in their office.

Of course anybody can do anything illegally if they want to.
I know for myself I wouldn't trust any medicines that I purchased in Mexico or Canada.

Our job is to give you the facts! The FDA sets guidelines which are also supported by the manufacturer. These medical supply houses that advertise these supposedly "cheap" prices are licensed to sell to physicians only - not to patients.

[Granbonny]

I would not even buy an off-brand flea liquid product from my Vet's office yesterday because they were out of Frontline.:p :p :p I would never change from buying my supplies from QAS...My insurance carrier pays 80% of my supplies. Bonnie

[Michele]

Thanks Bonnie,

We appreciate your support and trust in QAS and their products!!!!

[Granbonny]

Thanks to QAS for their wonderful products. Nailed a perfect 3.0 this morning. Was so excited, called my hubby to take a look:D :D My INR runs between 2.5 and 3.0.. Been going to the pool for several days and wanted to see if the sun had changed it..Must have raised it a tad. so will back away from getting that tan..:p :p :p I keep my supplies in an extra refrigerator in basement. Take one out and use it after 1 hour.thanks again...P.S. Went and got my Frontline flea product today..Always stay with what works.:) :) :) Bonnie

[Christina]

Of course you don't want to change Bonnie, I wouldn't either if my insurance paid 80% of my supplies. But when they don't pay a cent towards any of the cost, and you yourself have to fork over $300+ $18 S/H every time, it get's kind of expensive, don't you think?
I am trying to make them last, but at times I need to test more than once a week, so 25 tests don't last that long.
BTW, this is NOT an OFF BRAND.
It's identical to what QAS sells, except I am paying 50% less.
Call me stupid, but to me the bottom line talks.

[Zipper]

Hi Christina,

My situation is the same as yours, which is why I found the information on saving money on supplies was worth investigating. I have not had time to do so yet and am very curious as to why it was stated to be illegal for these companies to sell to us as patients. Do you know if that is the case from your personal experiences?

Feel free to PM me if you'd rather not share here. I'd appreciate any info.

Zipper:confused:

[Michele]

I am only posting the facts. Feel free to contact the manufacturer ITC (International Technidyne Corporation) directly at 1-800-272-1252 x282-Jay Patel. They will confirm what I have told you.

If you bought your cuvettes from someone who is not licensed to sell to patients and you have problems with your cuvettes you will not get technical support from ITC or from us!!! I am just looking out for your best interests.

Christina,

I truly understand not having insurance coverage. It sounds like you are also buying your cuvettes from a medical supply house. I can let you know that we are having a meeting with ITC about this issue and they will be cracking down on people who cannot sell to patients as this is against FDA regulations.

[Zipper]

Hi Michele,

I appreciate the information you provide and have always been very pleased with QAS service. I do buy my supplies from you but my insurance Blue Shield of Ca. PPO denied coverage for the unit and supplies, so it can get very costly if one has to test often.

If it is illegal as you say, I would not want to get involved. If it's legit then it would certainly be of benefit to those of us who pay 'out of pocket'. I'm sure you can understand that. As always, we in this forum try to help one another with information and I'm sure the intentions were sincere and meant to be helpful.

Zipper

[Granbonny]

I just posted a little awhile ago under coumadin .under Leo's thread..and asked Al..why would anyone want to test more than 4 weeks. I pay $2.00 each but I do not want to run down to basement every 3 days and get a cuvette out because I THINK my INR may be off.Plus, I am leaving on a long trip Friday and do not want to take Protime with me.. Hoping to hear from him on my questions. Bonnie

[Michele]

I totally understand where you are coming from. I am just trying to give you the facts so I urge you to call ITC the manufacturer and talk to them. Thanks.

[Blanche]

Michele:

Is QAS the only FDA approved source of supplies for individuals for the ProTime Microcoagulation monitor?

If an individual can not legally purchase cuvettes from a Medical Supply Company for $135, could that individual's doctor legally purchase the supplies for the patient? Does this have to be the physician who monitors the Coumadin? Could it be the individual's neurologist or the individual's neurosurgeon?

Since ITC is the only manufacturer for the cuvettes, and medical supply companies receive the cuvettes for sale to physicians, wouldn't ITC be required to provide support for problems. How would an individual, one who had not read your recent correspondence, know that the company would not stand behind its products for individuals?

I would truly like to know how an individual would know that this activity is illegal. Is there something in writing that might help me understand. Like others here, I have always been more than satisfied with QAS service. And, like others here, we pay for our own supplies. In a free market economy, one has every right to price shop. I wouldn't buy a garbage disposal without comparing prices. The same principle seems to hold with other purchases.

I would appreciate your help in understanding this. It is hard for me to grasp that supply houses can sell the same identical product, identical in every way, to doctors for 55% less than to individuals. And, if an individual purchases the product they are in violation of the law, and the manufacturer will provide no technical support????

Appreciate your assistance.

Blanche

[Michele]

Blanche,

I have stated in my last posts all the facts. Medical Supply Houses are licensed to sell to physicians. And physicians get that price for their cuvettes because they buy in volume to test patients in their office.

I just got off the phone with ITC and they state "if you buy your cuvettes from a facility that does not have a license to sell to patients they will not honor technical support for those supplies." We keep on file the lot numbers of all the strips that we send to our patients - information that is also available to ITC.

If you call some of these supply houses - ask them up front if they have a license to sell to patients. Anyone who is authorized to sell to patients would ask for a prescription to be kept on file for that patient in case of an audit from the FDA. Just like all prescription drugs there are guidelines that have been set by the FDA to be followed. And if companies don't follow those guidelines ITC will not want them respresenting their company.

[mbalfour]

I just felt the need to send an unsolicited congratulations and thank you to the entire staff of QAS. It is almost 3 years since I began to use the Pro-Time home monitor system. The instrument has been great and the support of the QAS staff has been great. They have been there through technical issues and through some thorny insurance issues and have come through every time. Thank you guys (and gals)!!

[Allen]

I agree with mbalfour - the home testing has been great. I had to go to the hospital for my blood tests because my doctors nurse stuck me 3-4 times to get blood, every time i came in. It was always a big production

I've got to believe that its cheaper for the insurance company in the long run. They initially rejected it, but my wifes persistance, along with help from QAS, changed their minds

[djacq]

Me too!!

QAS worked very hard to get my Pro Time covered by insurance.

I called them lots about the status of my claim and they were ALWAYS patient and polite and most helpful.

The paperwork they did was remarkable.

The machine is a Godsend. I can't imagine being without it.

I have used two labs for double checking my machine and both came in with a difference of .6.

Blue Cross C to C has covered 80% thanks to QAS and their persistence.

Also, I hope to remain on the AVR list even tho I don't post too often. Too tired after 12 hour work days but have to say since my AVR I have never felt soooo good.

Thank you all for pulling me through this.

Donna

[tnboomer1013]

I tried along time ago, I think just after surgery to obtain a protime and my insurance just would not cover it. I wrote letters, appealed and did everything I could think of to get some help from my ins. co. but to no avail. I just can't afford to outright buy one of these machnes and I can't imagine the cost of supplies out of pocket for the rest of your life. So I'll just be a lab rat I guess. But to those of you who do have ins. coverage I congratulate you on finding the lowest price possible. Right or wrong, it has come down to the bottom line for all of us who have any medical condition. I heard just tonite on cnn that the gov.s medical perscription plan will be outdated in 2006 because of the 20% rise of medical costs in that period of time. Talk about the fleecing of america. I'll stop there and climb down, I think we all know the cost and how exagerated it is, for whatever reason. So back to the point any of you who can lower your cost I applaud you. A wise man said once a penny saved is a penny earned. Any way you get it. $135 versus $300 I know which way I'd go.

Good health and live long and prosper !!

[mbalfour]

Boomer:
Contact the folks at QAS and let them help you get the machine covered. If it is at all possible, they will be able to make it happen. Good luck.

[tnboomer1013]

Been there done that. They sent an appeal to the ins co. after they filed the paper work the first time. And to be honest that was it, I got the feeling that they just did want to fool with me. Too much hassle. You know too many other cases that were easier too get handled. So that's ok I'll just be a lab rat for the rest of my life.

[DickV]

Michelle, can you provide additional information regarding QAS's position that it is "illegal" for other venders to sell protime supplies to individuals. I do understand your statement that your price is higher because QAS adds in the cost of technical support into the product however there will be individuals who are of the opinion that they will waive customer support in favor of a much lower per unit price. What specific laws are other vendors breaking by selling the required supplies for products they sell. I am not asking about contractual arrangements or marketing practices but specifically your comment regarding the term "illegal."

[Michele]

Our insurance department works with patients on trying to get their monitor covered. We usually will go through the appeals process twice. There are a lot of factors that have to be considered each time we go through an appeal. We will have to get additional information from the patient and they have to contact their insurance company to see what kind of time line they have to do an appeal and if a provider can do the appeal process for them. There are usually additional letters that have to be written from your doctor and the patient as well. There are also variables as to why the monitor was denied. If you would like to contact me directly I can pull your file and see if we can do anything else for you. Please call me at 1-800-298-4515, x 2616.

[Michele]

Dick,

I think I was confusing in previous posts. Cuvettes are FDA controlled just like a prescription drug - and they need a prescription. If your friend sold you a prescription drug and was not licensed to do so wouldn't that be illegal? A vendor that is selling cuvettes to patients would be licensed from the manufacturer to do so and would be asking for a prescription to keep on file for the FDA.

We don't include any additional costs in our cuvettes for technical support. We pride ourselves on our customer service. According to the FDA and manufacturer guidelines, we HAVE to provide technical support for all our customers.

The manufacturer has set the price for the cuvettes at $12 each for patients. We are a distributor not the manufacturer.

If you have any other concerns, please call me at 1-800-298-4515, x 2616.

[Zipper]

Hi Dick,

I remain confused on this issue as well. I have spoken to vendors (which will remain unnamed) that assure me they are not violating any FDA regulations by selling supplies such as cuvettes. They, however state they do not sell the units (machines) to individuals as they are only allowed the sale of those to physicians.

I buy my supplies from QAS and have no problem with them at all. I have received excellent service. Of course I have no objection to saving money if possible and legal.

I would like to hear from any others that have spoken/contacted any vendors and what info they were given. I hope people aren't avoiding posting anything they've learned. We all need to have definitive answers in my opinion.

Zipper :confused:

[DickV]

Michelle,

Regarding your statement that the manufacturer sets the price at $12.00 for patients, I gather this is a different price than that for a physician. Is this correct?

Most venders who sell over the web really do not make a distinction between the two. For example, I found a vender and verified via phone that they would sell me any of the below items at these prices. I cut and pasted this off their site. I explained that I was an individual and did not have a PX and they were eager to accept my money. The price below is a little less than $5.00 per cuvette.

Description Item# Quantity Price
Pro-Time Microcoagulation System $1499.00
Pro-Time 3 Cuvettes 1 bx. of (25) $123.00
Pro-Time 5 Cuvettes 1 bx. of (25) $123.00


The whole process took less than 5 minutes. As many people who use any of the machines on the market, most are interested in the price of supplies, especially individuals who can not file through their insurance.

While QAS may feel these companies should not sell to individuals at lower prices than QAS, if they do, people will utilize their services.

Michelle, I am not picking on you. People are curious to know if there are alternatives regarding Protime units and related supply sales over the web.

[Woody]

Hello Everybody, it's been awhile since I posted, but I have been keeping up with reading them. So I am going to try to defuse and inform all on the subject of purchasing patient monitors and supplies.

Everyone remembers that when they first needed their instrument we needed to get a Rx from your physician. Also, the Rx had to say Supplies either lifetime or ongoing. This is, of course, on file for the FDA at our Corporate Location. We have never or will never sell these FDA-regulated Supplies to anyone without having a Rx on file. Without the Rx you're not purchasing from us unless it's going to a Clinic or Dr's Office, Lab or Health Care Facility - it's not a matter of just showing us the money. We know what the FDA and manufacturer mandates of us. If a company who is not licensed with the manufacturer sells these items to patients they are in jeopardy with the FDA & Manufacturer. Fines can be levied & a loss of their Distribution Rights could be mandated by the Manufacturer. This does become a catch 22.

Some of you remember how cheap I am, in Vegas I was using Bus Transfer tickets to go back and forth from the strip to downtown. So I understand the need to save money. We have worked hard without great reward for the past six years, developing procedures and laying groundwork for Insurance Companies to cover the Instrument for all Patients. We have been moderately successful with these Institutions.

So now that home testing is more common, the Regulations are still in place. There are several web sites that tell you this and even have two disclaimers saying they can only sell to professionals (http://www.newlinemedical.com/Pro-Time_system.html). This is exactly what ITC requests of their other Distributors that are allowed to sell Professionally.

There will always be people in business looking for loop holes till they get busted. Sometimes it takes longer than others.

We care about our patients. We have successfully worked with millions of special circumstances. We are not looking towards Sainthood here, like any business we strive to be profitable. But don't be mad at us if we go after the Business' that are nipping at our structure without the proper credentials.

Brian Woodard aka Woody
Sales Manager

[DickV]

Michelle/Woody, thanks for all the clarifications.