Detailed metrics for a mitral valve repair weekend very semi athlete

[MitralMan]

Thought I'd start a separate thread to focus on one person's hard data as he prepares for a marathon relay with 4 other valvereplacement forum members. The purpose of the thread is to provide as much detail as possible since it doesn't seem like the medical establishment has very much to tell us about measured limits once we've had OHS. Hope this helps people who swing by our forum looking for answers!!

So:

almost 49 year old male

mitral valve repair 13 months ago

194lbs (down from 211 immediately after leaving the hospital)

6'

morning resting heart rate (MRHR) down to 52bpm from 100 immediately after coming leaving the hospital; rises during the work day or as soon as I stand up, but not more than 95, and typically in mid-70's

morning BP typically 105/65, rises during the work day or as soon as I stand up, but not more than 120/80

only meds are 25mg Metoprolol 2x/day and 1 81mg Ecotrin

typically consuming 1800 calories/day, give or take, 55% carbs, 25% fat, 20% protein

Pulsox readings in the morning vary between 94 and 98%.

ALWAYS slow (walked/ran the London marathon in 2001 in 6:20)

Using a Polar 625SX and occasionally an Omron automated wrist BP cuff and even more occasionally a pulsoximeter. Use a TrueFitness HRC treadmill.

Tonight was the second day of a one month acclimation program established through www.polarrunningcoach.com

Program called for 40 minutes at 120bpm, achieving approximately 4.2 miles

I averaged 118bpm over precisely 4.2 miles, but it took me 64 minutes. I ended up mostly walking at 4.0 mph.

No complaints, no windedness, just decided to keep in the zone but do the mileage.:)

[MitralMan]

October 16, 2005: 32

January 23, 2006: 42

The Polar OwnIndex "is equivalent to maximal oxygen uptake" (VO2 max).

I've been exercising fairly regularly according to ESCAPE YOUR SHAPE for RULERS. It seems to adhere to low weight/high rep and moderate aerobic exercises, along the lines for OHS rehab and post-rehab.

This has moved me from "fair" for my age group (male 45-49) past "average" to "good" according to Polar's web site.

http://support.polar.fi/PKBSupport.nsf/ALLDOCS/42256C2B001E0F6A4225681F005E304D?OpenDocument

[ChristineBP]

You guys keep talking about what your heart rate should be and what is to hard and so on.

So you got me thinking, maybe I push myself way too hard. But the only restriction from my doctors have been so fuzzy.

They told me no marathons and maybe 5miles was far enough. But everyone talks in numbers, like heart rate and blood pressure and other numbers.

Now I know you can't tell me what is right for me but maybe you could guide me on how to bring this up to my doc.

I have ultra sound the first week of Feb and then shortly after I'll have a stress test or maybe I won't who knows, Then In march I'll see my doctor.
The only problem is he does not run and I'm not sure how active he is.

But he does have a degree in medicine so I guess he knows more then me.

I just need some help so I don't end up killing myself

thanks

[MikeHeim]

They told me no marathons and maybe 5miles was far enough. But everyone talks in numbers, like heart rate and blood pressure and other numbers.

Why no marathons and why the 5 mile restriction?

[MitralMan]

trying to find the optimal point in our physical exertion where it helps our fitness and doesn't damage us?

Maybe you just want to print out some of these threads for your doc to read? On the other hand, in this age of capitated medicine, s/he may not have the time or patience to go through it.

You might just say you've met a group of really well-informed post-OHS athletes and it has you wondering a couple of things...

Good luck and keep us posted!!

And I'm glad this little thread may help just a little bit!:)

[msiwik]

You guys keep talking about what your heart rate should be and what is to hard and so on.

So you got me thinking, maybe I push myself way too hard. But the only restriction from my doctors have been so fuzzy.

They told me no marathons and maybe 5miles was far enough. But everyone talks in numbers, like heart rate and blood pressure and other numbers.

Now I know you can't tell me what is right for me but maybe you could guide me on how to bring this up to my doc.

I have ultra sound the first week of Feb and then shortly after I'll have a stress test or maybe I won't who knows, Then In march I'll see my doctor.
The only problem is he does not run and I'm not sure how active he is.

But he does have a degree in medicine so I guess he knows more then me.

I just need some help so I don't end up killing myself

thanks

Christine - you raise a very good question that it's hard to answer quickly and succintly. Hopefully this Vermont relay will happen and we can get a chance to talk in depth. For now, my quick reply is that all we have is the Bethesda report linked in Bill C's post on Philip's thread from yesterday in this section of VR forum. I look forward to talking more about this with you. Mark

[tommy]

Christine,

No, we are not doctors, don't have near the training nor experience as they. But no one has deep experience in this type of exercise after valve surgery, yet many prosper, and provide inspiration to others.

What are the factors, and do they have limits/guidelines? To me, those are the questions. Simply saying "no marathons" and "keep it to 5 miles" seems too vague to me.....kinda of like "don't over do it". What about 6 miles? Maybe 4 is the answer. Your mileage may vary.

Because of lack of data, many doctors will default to the conservative side. Others are more creative and flexible - is that bad? It would be tragic to go out and kill ourselves with exercise. But wouldn't it be equally as tragic to sit on the sidelines and miss out on life and all it has to offer, if we are able?

I'd ask about the factors. What are the issues? Heart rate, blood pressure, O2 levels, hydration, etc? We can conveniently measure some of these. I believe that this is the point of the thread, to add to the collective data.

Thanks Mitralman. Great idea!

[msiwik]

Christine,

No, we are not doctors, don't have near the training nor experience as they. But no one has deep experience in this type of exercise after valve surgery, yet many prosper, and provide inspiration to others.

What are the factors, and do they have limits/guidelines? To me, those are the questions. Simply saying "no marathons" and "keep it to 5 miles" seems too vague to me.....kinda of like "don't over do it". What about 6 miles? Maybe 4 is the answer. Your mileage may vary.

Because of lack of data, many doctors will default to the conservative side. Others are more creative and flexible - is that bad? It would be tragic to go out and kill ourselves with exercise. But wouldn't it be equally as tragic to sit on the sidelines and miss out on life and all it has to offer, if we are able?

I'd ask about the factors. What are the issues? Heart rate, blood pressure, O2 levels, hydration, etc? We can conveniently measure some of these. I believe that this is the point of the thread, to add to the collective data.

Thanks Mitralman. Great idea!

Mitralman - yes thanks for getting this thread going. Christine - I was alerted today to the fact that ACHA got a story to be picked up by the AP Newswire about the need for long-term treatment/care of adult congenital heart disease. I thought of you immediately because you had your surgery at 13 and because you (like many of us) may face surgery again for one reason or another. Check out the link - it confirms to me how far we have come and how far we have yet to go in supporting each other and those like us with this type of medical condition. We won't really succeed in improving the quality of medical advice for the athletically inclined until there is a systemic collection and review of data on people like us. Best to all. Mark

http://www.newsday.com/news/health/wire/sns-ap-heart-defects,0,7908372.story?coll=sns-ap-health-headlines

[msiwik]

Mitralman - yes thanks for getting this thread going. Christine - I was alerted today to the fact that ACHA got a story to be picked up by the AP Newswire about the need for long-term treatment/care of adult congenital heart disease. I thought of you immediately because you had your surgery at 13 and because you (like many of us) may face surgery again for one reason or another. Check out the link - it confirms to me how far we have come and how far we have yet to go in supporting each other and those like us with this type of medical condition. We won't really succeed in improving the quality of medical advice for the athletically inclined until there is a systemic collection and review of data on people like us. Best to all. Mark

http://www.newsday.com/news/health/wire/sns-ap-heart-defects,0,7908372.story?coll=sns-ap-health-headlines

P.S. Tom you said it very well. And I think this merry band can help the cause of getting more information into the hands of the doctors so we can take the study/advice to the next level.

[MitralMan]

Maybe, if it develops far enough along, we can have a sub-section just on people's metrics.

If either of you care to, please feel free to share your own metrics!

Christine, care to share yours?

I'm fascinated by the Polar testing. I wonder if it's valid for OHS folks like us, too. I'm betting it is, within limits that I don't yet understand.

[msiwik]

Maybe, if it develops far enough along, we can have a sub-section just on people's metrics.

If either of you care to, please feel free to share your own metrics!

Christine, care to share yours?

I'm fascinated by the Polar testing. I wonder if it's valid for OHS folks like us, too. I'm betting it is, within limits that I don't yet understand.

Mitral Man - see my Indy half marathon thread for where I am at. I agree with HR monitors and I really look forward to getting to know you at the marathon relay! Best regards, Mark

[MitralMan]

Mitral Man - see my Indy half marathon thread for where I am at. I agree with HR monitors and I really look forward to getting to know you at the marathon relay! Best regards, Mark

It really is inspiring to read and track your progress. I'm looking forward to meeting you and the rest of the team in VT as well.

To infinity and beyond!

[ChristineBP]

You guys are good.

O.k. first - help me out. What is maximal oxygen uptake? Pulsox readings? Metrics.

I know it's bad, I have no idea what you guys are talking about I just go run. Help

My doctors have never asked or voluntered any info that would help in my running or in racing. They just put limits on me. Which of course frustrated me and inspite of what they said I would do different.

Yes thanks for the e-mail, and yes I was told 2 years ago to be ready at any time for the next round of OHS. When I was told that, I really started running more and just taking better care of myself.

Also I'm always told to try and stay in great shape and most of all to stay thin and lean. This comes straight from my doctor-The less I weigh (i'm not sure the spelling is right) the less my heart has to work. And that is very important to him. I'm 5feet 10 and 1/2 inches tall and weigh around 140. Of course the docs tell me to loose 5lbs just to be safe. Of course if the 5lbs come running would be that much easier.

My heart rate does get high, but I've done many stress tests and I've been given no guide lines.

So yes I'm planning on showing him some of these posts and asking Questions. I think there is some one on this site Happystar something- anyway I saw he had some really intresting info. If I start asking the right questions My doctors will be amazed.

Thanks guys-I need all the help I can get.

At one point I used to tell people the only way I would get Up at 6am and run-was If my house was on fire and I had to run out of it. LOOK AT ME NOW. Funny

[MitralMan]

from the Polar web site (http://www.polar.fi/polar/channels/eng/glossary/Maximal_oxygen_uptake.html):

Maximal oxygen uptake (VO2max)
The maximum capacity for oxygen consumption by the body during maximum exertion. Also known as aerobic power or maximal oxygen intake/consumption. VO2max is a commonly used determinant of aerobic (cardiovascular) fitness. Aerobic fitness relates to how well your cardiovascular system works to transport and utilize oxygen in your body. The better your aerobic fitness the higher your VO2max. The most accurate way to measure your VO2max is to perform a maximal exercise stress test in a laboratory. VO2max is usually expressed in ml*kg-1*min-1, sometimes in ml*min-1.


(from http://www.nda.ox.ac.uk/wfsa/html/u05/u05_003.htm)
Pulsox (Pulse Oximetry)
Pulse oximetry is a simple non-invasive method of monitoring the percentage of haemoglobin (Hb) which is saturated with oxygen. The pulse oximeter consists of a probe attached to the patient's finger or ear lobe which is linked to a computerised unit. The unit displays the percentage of Hb saturated with oxygen together with an audible signal for each pulse beat, a calculated heart rate and in some models, a graphical display of the blood flow past the probe. Audible alarms which can be programmed by the user are provided. An oximeter detects hypoxia before the patient becomes clinically cyanosed

See especially http://www.wmems.org/pulseox.htm

metrics simply means systematic measurement!

Hope this helps. Some of us are just numbers freaks. I, for one, should probably just get better at listening to my body -- become more intuitive. Oh well.

[ChristineBP]

Thanks mitralman


I should pay a little more attention to the numbers. I'll see what my doctors have to say about all my new knowledge. I'm really glad you guys are so willing to help out. It's nice to know that there are other people trying to get to the finish line:)

[MitralMan]

avg HR 113
max HR 135
dist: 2.31 mi
max speed: 5.0mph (up a notch since last time)

Roughly:

10:00 warm-up walking at 3.0mph
20:00 alternating between slow jog at 5.0mph and walking at 4.0mph (to keep HR between 120 and 130)
5:00 cool down walking at 3.0mph

Very easy, just following the guidelines. First time I've taken my HR up to the 80% level, and it was just fine.

Sitting at the kitchen table right now, my pulse ox is 97.

[msiwik]

avg HR 113
max HR 135
dist: 2.31 mi
max speed: 5.0mph (up a notch since last time)

Roughly:

10:00 warm-up walking at 3.0mph
20:00 alternating between slow jog at 5.0mph and walking at 4.0mph (to keep HR between 120 and 130)
5:00 cool down walking at 3.0mph

Very easy, just following the guidelines. First time I've taken my HR up to the 80% level, and it was just fine.

Sitting at the kitchen table right now, my pulse ox is 97.

Textbook effort - good job! Mark

[MitralMan]

Approximately:

10:00 warmup @ 3.0mph
25:00 alternating between 4.0mph and 6.0mph (settled into a routine of 1:00 @ 4.0mph, 0:30 @ 6.0mph, trying to keep HR below 120)
5:00 cooldown @ 3.0mph

went 2.73 miles

avg HR 110
max HR 128

Felt good.

[msiwik]

Approximately:

10:00 warmup @ 3.0mph
25:00 alternating between 4.0mph and 6.0mph (settled into a routine of 1:00 @ 4.0mph, 0:30 @ 6.0mph, trying to keep HR below 120)
5:00 cooldown @ 3.0mph

went 2.73 miles

avg HR 110
max HR 128

Felt good.

Mitralman: We will know in a few days about the Vermont race. If we get in, it will give us an opportunity to compare notes about the best way to approach training. I like your approach so far. Mark

[MitralMan]

Mitralman: We will know in a few days about the Vermont race. If we get in, it will give us an opportunity to compare notes about the best way to approach training. I like your approach so far. Mark

I'm a numbers kinda guy.

Last night, I repeated the 10:20:5 gig, but this time a fast walk was all it took to get my HR to 120. So...never above 4.5mph.

Might be interesting for people to see the variability, too.

:o

[msiwik]

I'm a numbers kinda guy.

:o

MitralMan - that's a good thing. I am much more disciplined with the numbers and science of running since OHS - as I think it's crucial for training/rehabbing. I will never run again at least for the next ten years with a HR monitor. Best regards, Mark

[MitralMan]

I haven't recorded each exercise session, but I've been following the pattern you've already seen.

But here's the odd thing: in the last week, my Polar HR monitor is telling me that I'm burning 1/3 - 1/4 the calories I was 6 weeks ago. I know my HR is significantly lower than it was.

I think this means I'm getting in better shape, but it also means I have to work harder to get the same benefit.

I like this kind of problem!

[msiwik]

I haven't recorded each exercise session, but I've been following the pattern you've already seen.

But here's the odd thing: in the last week, my Polar HR monitor is telling me that I'm burning 1/3 - 1/4 the calories I was 6 weeks ago. I know my HR is significantly lower than it was.

I think this means I'm getting in better shape, but it also means I have to work harder to get the same benefit.

I like this kind of problem!

Hi Hugh - noticed a typo in my last post to you - meant to say I will never not run again without a HR - great tool! I would use distance as a rule of thumb for calorie burn. My formula is 100 calories per mile, regardless of pace. Yes a faster pace will result in more calories burned but to me it's not worth worrying about. You should a lower heart rate over time as you progress. When I started in Sept., I couldn't run a mile at a 12 min. pace and keep my heart rate under 156. Now I am in the 9 to 10 minute range and still under 156. All set on this end for Vermont - looking forward to meeting you and your family. Mark

[MitralMan]

I'm going to shift to a fuller running schedule now. I'm psyched to meet you and the team in VT in a few months.

P.S. I'm a much better runner downhill than up!

Hi Hugh - noticed a typo in my last post to you - meant to say I will never not run again without a HR - great tool! I would use distance as a rule of thumb for calorie burn. My formula is 100 calories per mile, regardless of pace. Yes a faster pace will result in more calories burned but to me it's not worth worrying about. You should a lower heart rate over time as you progress. When I started in Sept., I couldn't run a mile at a 12 min. pace and keep my heart rate under 156. Now I am in the 9 to 10 minute range and still under 156. All set on this end for Vermont - looking forward to meeting you and your family. Mark

[msiwik]

Hi Hugh - noticed a typo in my last post to you - meant to say I will never not run again without a HR - great tool! I would use distance as a rule of thumb for calorie burn. My formula is 100 calories per mile, regardless of pace. Yes a faster pace will result in more calories burned but to me it's not worth worrying about. You should a lower heart rate over time as you progress. When I started in Sept., I couldn't run a mile at a 12 min. pace and keep my heart rate under 156. Now I am in the 9 to 10 minute range and still under 156. All set on this end for Vermont - looking forward to meeting you and your family. Mark

Well, you are supposed to keep on learning in life right? Runner's World just had an article on this point and apparently you burn twice the calories running that you do walking. The typical person will burn about 125 calories with an easy jog (per mile) and about 60 to 70 walking a 20 minute pace (my preferred walking pace). The old 100 calorie per mile is oft-quoted, oft-cited standard that is falling by the wayside. Mark

[Mark Wagner]

Hi Christine,

So many people here are so much more knowlegable in the numbers department than I, and I am always impressed. It is hard to find support from doctors that are not runners. Myself, I consider very fortunate, for my GP has run the Chicago marthon 4 times, and my cardiologist is a runner. Both of them have continually pushed the point, of just listening to my body. Their support has been awesome, and for that I contribute greatly to fact I have now run 4 full marathons and will be doing my 5th in May.

You may think the world of your doctor, but a second opinion from a cardiologist whom deals with athletes and runners may be in order. (maybe at a university ?)Hey, if he or she comes up with the same advice, then so be it, but at least you can adjust your life to the correct advice. My heart was enlarging and I have a St Jude mechanical valve now in place, just over 6 years. The only thing my cardiologist does annually is an echo, just to make sure things are in order. My running he admires, but worries more about my knees and not getting enough rest. If there is any doubt, see another doctor if not for just one appointment. You enjoy fitness, and I find it hard to understand a doctor will hold you back from a controled planned activity that can not only strengthen your heart but give you the enjoyment and quality of life you deserve. I hope that helps some. Feel free to drop me a line any time. :)

Peace.

Mark

[GregB]

Hi Guys,

An interesting discussion
I completed a 10K road race last Sunday.
For the first time I wore a heart rate monitor and kept an eye on heart rate throughout the run. I seemed to be around 150- 155 much of the way and moved up to 160 a couple of times.
I actually have no idea if this was a safe or wise rate??? But I am still here.

My race target was to beat my age ie 60 years -60 minutes.
I actually came in at 55minutes 12 seconds. I was pleased with that.

The best part was I ran with my daughter much of the way. (This has nothing to do with the fact that she is training to be a nurse).
Even better my little grandson ran in the 2k event. Three generations hit the track.

I am now preparing for a 15k event in about 3 weeks and possibly a half marathon a bit later.

Cheers,

Greg

[MitralMan]

Gorgeous day today in Southeastern PA -- just what I needed to get myself in gear.

I walked/ran outdoors for the first time with my 16 year old daughter. It's a 2.5 mile circuit I created with hills.

total distance: 2.42mi
total time: 42:18.3
average HR: 118
max HR: 182

mile 1: 13.29.2; avg HR 125; max HR 176); flat, fartlek
mile 2: 19:42; avg HR 120; max HR 182; up hill, mostly walk
mile 3 (.42): 9:07.1; avg HR 103; max HR 113; walk slowly only

(my daughter was mad at me, but by the end she agreed to do this circuit with me regularly)

I just may be able to get to 12:00 by end of May!

[tommy]

I think that the higher heart rates coincide with higher lactic acid build up and depletion of glycogen (carbs). It also coincides with sore muscles and longer recovery.

In the interest of weight loss, avoiding the demotivating soreness, and exercising more regularly, I'm trying to keep my heart rate below 135 - burn more fat, and still get the cardio endurance benefit.

This was a good week. My resting heart rate is down a few more beats to 49. During my 15 mile bike ride today, I bounced off the 135 BPM at the top of a hill and 20 seconds later was coasting at 28 MPH and below 105 BPM. Woo hoo!

My muscles and joints feel better than they have in a long time. My cardio says to ignore the PVCs and keep going. Yes sir!

[Mary]

Tommy,

My primary focus has been to lose weight by jogging, and I'm keeping my HR 10 points on either side of 125. It seems to be working; I'm down 12 pounds.
Woo hoo!

[MitralMan]

How long has it taken you to drop the weight?

Tommy,

My primary focus has been to lose weight by jogging, and I'm keeping my HR 10 points on either side of 125. It seems to be working; I'm down 12 pounds.
Woo hoo!

[Mary]

How long has it taken you to drop the weight?

I started between Christmas week and New Year's Day-- probably 12-13 weeks. I'm planning on dropping 10 more, so if I can get it off by the first of June, I'll be pleased.
I'm happy to say that the jogging is easier with every pound I lose!

[msiwik]

Hi Guys,

An interesting discussion
I completed a 10K road race last Sunday.
For the first time I wore a heart rate monitor and kept an eye on heart rate throughout the run. I seemed to be around 150- 155 much of the way and moved up to 160 a couple of times.
I actually have no idea if this was a safe or wise rate??? But I am still here.

My race target was to beat my age ie 60 years -60 minutes.
I actually came in at 55minutes 12 seconds. I was pleased with that.

The best part was I ran with my daughter much of the way. (This has nothing to do with the fact that she is training to be a nurse).
Even better my little grandson ran in the 2k event. Three generations hit the track.

I am now preparing for a 15k event in about 3 weeks and possibly a half marathon a bit later.

Cheers,

Greg

Greg - I am an experienced runner and think that you should be very pleased with your results. Congrats and best wishes. Mark

[msiwik]

Gorgeous day today in Southeastern PA -- just what I needed to get myself in gear.

I walked/ran outdoors for the first time with my 16 year old daughter. It's a 2.5 mile circuit I created with hills.

total distance: 2.42mi
total time: 42:18.3
average HR: 118
max HR: 182

mile 1: 13.29.2; avg HR 125; max HR 176); flat, fartlek
mile 2: 19:42; avg HR 120; max HR 182; up hill, mostly walk
mile 3 (.42): 9:07.1; avg HR 103; max HR 113; walk slowly only

(my daughter was mad at me, but by the end she agreed to do this circuit with me regularly)

I just may be able to get to 12:00 by end of May!

Nothing like spring to get you going! Good job Mitralman!

[MitralMan]

Was in Chicago yesterday and today, so no run since, but will get to it tomorrow, I think. My daughter had to admit she felt pretty good after a shower. Exciting! We can run together!!

[GregB]

Thanks Mark,
your encouragement and support is much appreciated. Obviously you know a bit about the running business.
I hope your own program continues to build and you can achieve your own goals.

Cheers

Greg

[MitralMan]

Swept through our house. Daughters, wife, now I have all succumbed.

Antibiotics, Tylenol, Advil...and to top it off, I was flying back from Chicago as this sucker really hit, and my ears are STILL clogged three days later.

BP is up (137/75), RHR is up (70), chills, fever, body aches, head aches... and I clearly have palpitations.

No running for me. Just going to crawl back into my hole and lick my wounds for another 24 - 48 hrs.

[MitralMan]

Two miles on the treadmill today. Flat.

Total time: 30 minutes

Total distance: 2.3 mi.

Routine:

Intervals for 2.0 miles: :30 at 8.0mph, 1:00 at 4:00mph except for the last few

.3 mi cooldown, 3.5mph

Avg HR: 135

Max HR: 159

First mile: 11:48

Second mile: 12:02

These were the fastest two miles I've run in a very long time. I was jazzed. Really got my heart going, but I was...FINE!!

Completely separate data point: flew tonight from Philly to LV. Had my pulseoximeter with me, remembering how out of breath I used to be on planes before the surgery. Not only did I feel fine -- NO shortness of breath -- but my pulseox reading was 94.

[MitralMan]

During a half hour interval training session yesterday, I hit a new maximum heart rate of 182. I didn't even know I'd hit it until I checked the results afterward to enter into www.polarpersonaltrainer.com, the web site I'm using to prepare for the marathon relay (PS -- I looked at the route map, and I'm volunteering for one of the all-downhill segments.).

My previous max HR was 173, not far off the traditional 220-one's age (I'm 49, which would equate to 171).

I'm amazed.

I'm also amazed because when I was done, I simply got off the treadmill, and THAT WAS IT. I used to get headaches and occasional nausea from over-exerting, but not yesterday.

And then today, I was even MORE AMAZED when my 12-year-old daughter asked me to play basketball with her. Now I know I shouldn't get too excited about beating our neighbor's young sons in a half court (who are we kidding, our driveway is more like a quarter court or even eighth court) game to 7, but given that I had to give up basketball YEARS ago and it wasn't too long ago that I couldn't raise my arms above my shoulders, this feels great. Of course, the real thrill was that my daughter asked me to play with her, and she hit a couple of nice outside shots (maybe 15 feet, and she's just 5' tall herself).

Life is good!

[msiwik]

During a half hour interval training session yesterday, I hit a new maximum heart rate of 182. I didn't even know I'd hit it until I checked the results afterward to enter into www.polarpersonaltrainer.com, the web site I'm using to prepare for the marathon relay (PS -- I looked at the route map, and I'm volunteering for one of the all-downhill segments.).

My previous max HR was 173, not far off the traditional 220-one's age (I'm 49, which would equate to 171).

I'm amazed.

I'm also amazed because when I was done, I simply got off the treadmill, and THAT WAS IT. I used to get headaches and occasional nausea from over-exerting, but not yesterday.

And then today, I was even MORE AMAZED when my 12-year-old daughter asked me to play basketball with her. Now I know I shouldn't get too excited about beating our neighbor's young sons in a half court (who are we kidding, our driveway is more like a quarter court or even eighth court) game to 7, but given that I had to give up basketball YEARS ago and it wasn't too long ago that I couldn't raise my arms above my shoulders, this feels great. Of course, the real thrill was that my daughter asked me to play with her, and she hit a couple of nice outside shots (maybe 15 feet, and she's just 5' tall herself).

Life is good!

Life is grand - go Mitralman go! Mark

[MitralMan]

3 miles outdoors on regular backroads with real hills. My objective was to attack the hills, but not go above 146bpm, per my Polar training schedule.

First 10 minutes, just a brisk walk at about 4 mph
Next 25 minutes or so, stay up near 146, attack hills (which means run, not walk -- max pace up the hills was 7:13), maybe walk after I hit the peak
Last 5 minutes or so, walk.

These results:

mile 1: 14:12 avg HR 111 max HR 147
mile 2: 11:59 avg HR 140 max HR 155
mile 3: 13:24 avg HR 141 max HR 155

Average temp, 80 degrees; sunny

In short, a gorgeous day on which I pushed myself, didn't keel over, and kept my average pace over 3 miles of very gentle hills just under the legal limit for the Vermont relay. I still have work to do.

I kept thinking to myself, "if I were 30 pounds lighter..." I've REAALLY got to work on that...

[msiwik]

3 miles outdoors on regular backroads with real hills. My objective was to attack the hills, but not go above 146bpm, per my Polar training schedule.

First 10 minutes, just a brisk walk at about 4 mph
Next 25 minutes or so, stay up near 146, attack hills (which means run, not walk -- max pace up the hills was 7:13), maybe walk after I hit the peak
Last 5 minutes or so, walk.

These results:

mile 1: 14:12 avg HR 111 max HR 147
mile 2: 11:59 avg HR 140 max HR 155
mile 3: 13:24 avg HR 141 max HR 155

Average temp, 80 degrees; sunny

In short, a gorgeous day on which I pushed myself, didn't keel over, and kept my average pace over 3 miles of very gentle hills just under the legal limit for the Vermont relay. I still have work to do.

I kept thinking to myself, "if I were 30 pounds lighter..." I've REAALLY got to work on that...

Mitralman - good results especially since it was 80 degrees. You lose about 10 seconds off your best pace for every degree over 60 so you need to account for that too. It would be interesting to get some measurements on you on a treadmill under ideal conditions and create a baseline. Much to discuss when we get to Vermont. Mark

[MitralMan]

Mitralman - good results especially since it was 80 degrees. You lose about 10 seconds off your best pace for every degree over 60 so you need to account for that too. It would be interesting to get some measurements on you on a treadmill under ideal conditions and create a baseline. Much to discuss when we get to Vermont. Mark

But what I really need is to get this weight off!! :o

[MitralMan]

HR-based intervals (Polar S625x has this). I set the interval to achieve a certain HR -- once achieved, it goes into recovery (which can be set, like the interval, for time, distance or HR). Once the lower HR is achieved, it goes to the next interval.

Maybe because it was late or I'd eaten too recently, but I never felt comfortable getting my HR above 151, even when I hit a 6:00 pace (for all of 30 seconds). On the other hand, it took 2 - 4 minutes to get my pulse back down to 109. Average HR was only 116, though, for the entire 44:39.

Net effect is that this approach resulted in the equivalent of 3 walking speed / 15 minute miles. Still, i went MUCH faster than I've gone in years (this was all flat treadmill, 75 degrees). My routine consists now of intervals (like yesterday, and which I will continue to explore); outdoor hilly runs; and longer easier jogs.

FUN!

BUT: once again, when I was done, I was done. No headache. No palpitations. No nothing (other than being drenched in sweat!). Next morning, and I'm not even sore, which REALLY blows my mind.

[tommy]

On the other hand, it took 2 - 4 minutes to get my pulse back down to 109. I believe that recovery time is a good indicator of how your heart is responding. While 2-4 seems long to me, but heat plays a large role. Here's to continued improvement. Congratulations!

[MitralMan]

Today I went back out on regular tarmac, avg temp 80, for 2.5 mile hilly run (OK, walking too). BUT: hills are relative (translation: I just found out how to use the altimeter function that's built into the monitor)

300' ascent over the 2.5 miles.

First 10:00, 4.0mph, HR between 91 and 109

Next 1.5 miles, jogging, HR between 109 and 129 (MOST of the time -- I got it up to 171 going up a hill). This was a 1 iteration interval, taking 18:49 -- which means I maintained a 12:36 pace during this time.

Last 5 minutes, recovery at a walk

Once again, when I was done, that was it. No pain, no pounding heart, nothing. I think I'm getting stronger.


I believe that recovery time is a good indicator of how your heart is responding. While 2-4 seems long to me, but heat plays a large role. Here's to continued improvement. Congratulations!

[MitralMan]

:(

But I'm still training.

3.1 miles out on the road tonight, average 12:58 pace including hills:

mile 1: 13:26 avg HR 128 max HR 152
mile 2: 12:46 avg HR 138 max HR 154
mile 3: 12:20 avg HR 145 max HR 157

So: average pace 12:58, max pace for a short burst, 7:52

It got cooler as I continued to run/jog/walk/mutter, and the first half of my run is more up hill.

But I was also breathing hard at 152 bpm at the beginning, though I attribute this to allergies and not heart problems.

But I've just recommitted to the proper eating habits. My usual trick of announcing to the world my intention (in this instance, to take off lots of weight) and shaming myself into following through didn't work. OK, I'll try again: I was 204.5 this morning.

[tommy]

Keep after it Mitral Man! Seems like I need varying enducements. Annoucements and shame works for a while.

[MitralMan]

3 miles outdoors, regular tarmac, small hills (my usual outdoor run)

mile 1 12:25 129 148
mile 2 11:44 147 157
mile 3 12:40 155 162

average pace 1248
max pace 9:53
200 ft ascent, avg alt 280 ft

avg temp 78, but I think it was cooler

[MitralMan]

Today, 12:48 pace over 3 miles. Would have gone faster the first mile, except my daughter refused to run with me -- made me walk part way! 12:52 second mile, 12:06 third. The only injury was a spasmed right back muscle -- ouch!

Still, I'm feeling pretty good!

[MitralMan]

avg HR 136 (~75% of new max)
max HR 154 (~85% of new max)

mile 1: 12:22 avg HR 125 max HR 142
mile 2: 11:38 avg HR 141 max HR 148
mile 3: 12:14 avg HR 144 max HR 154

140' ascent (not sure why it's reading differently than other times)
avg temp 81

Tipping the scales at 199. I think I'd rather run than eat to lose weight. This Fro-Zone stuff is pretty icky.

[tommy]

Congrats on the PB.
Your pace and heart rate are both moving in the right directions. Woo Hoo!
I'm curious what your heart rate is 3 minutes after running.
To me, that's another great indicator of heart fitness.
140' ascent
I don't have any of those. :rolleyes: The most I can find around me is about 65':D

[Mark Wagner]

Not that I mind, because I find this interesting information ... but why do I get this thread on my E. mail, when I have not replied? I know I will get it now, but I have never had that happen.

[Mark Wagner]

Sorry, I just realized there are three pages. I probably did. I never claimed to have the brains in the family!!:o :D

[MitralMan]

I think I can program that in...

I DID stop and restart at the 3 mile mark, and I just reviewed the samples. It tells me that in 00:02:40 my HR went from 146 (so let's call that the beginning of my cool down) to 117. Based on the following 5 second sampling rate below, probably reasonable to say three minute recovery yielded 30BPM drop. I'll use this number as my baseline going forward (on the other hand, this starting point was NOT my max HR nor my max HR for this particular run, and this may skew the conclusions one can draw at this point. I think what I'll do next time is try to kick my HR up higher just before the end).

Here's what happened at 5 second intervals going backwards from the end point:

2:35 117
2:30 118
2:25 119
2:20 120
2:15 122
2:10 123
2:05 124
2:00 123
1:55 123
1:50 123
1:45 123
1:40 124
1:35 124
1:30 125
1:25 126
1:20 126
1:15 127
1:10 128
1:05 129
1:00 130
0:55 131
0:50 133
0:45 135
0:40 137
0:35 138
0:30 140
0:25 143
0:20 145
0:15 146
0:10 146
0:05 146

There is a web site called real age (see below)

http://www.realage.com/racafe/heartratecalc.aspx

They use 2 minutes as the recovery period. According to their calculation (I have no idea if it's right or not) my recovery of 23 BPM puts my heart age equal to my actual age (49).

On the other hand, Sally Edwards, who literally wrote the book on HR training for Polar, says 20-30 BPM recovery in the first 60 seconds is normal.

And then again, in a 1999 radio interview of Dr. Michael Lauer of the Cleveland Clinic said that people who averaged only a 12BPM decrease in the first minute had a higher mortality risk (see below)

"...We took the difference between the heart rate at peak exercise and the heart rate one minute later, and we measured the heart rate recovery. We followed 2,400 patients for about six years, during which time 213 of them died. And what we found was that this change in heart rate during the first minute after exercise was an extremely powerful predictor of mortality, in fact it was the most powerful predictor of mortality that we've looked at; it was a more powerful predictor of mortality than nuclear tests, which look at blood flow abnormality to the heart, and it was a much more powerful predictor of mortality than the electrocardiogram we physically looked at during exercise..."

At the one minute mark, my BPM was down by 16. On the other hand, I know that my HR comes down much faster than that when it's higher to start. Will let you know!



Congrats on the PB.
Your pace and heart rate are both moving in the right directions. Woo Hoo!
I'm curious what your heart rate is 3 minutes after running.
To me, that's another great indicator of heart fitness.

I don't have any of those. :rolleyes: The most I can find around me is about 65':D

[tommy]

Thanks. You've got more detail than I ever had. I've been dropping about 30 BPM in 3 minutes. The Real Age site is interesting. I may check the 2 minute heart rate as well.

I don't think that it's necessary to measure the recovery rate from any peak, although that might be an interesting measurement as well.

Sounds like you are doing great!

[MitralMan]

Thanks. You've got more detail than I ever had. I've been dropping about 30 BPM in 3 minutes. The Real Age site is interesting. I may check the 2 minute heart rate as well.

I don't think that it's necessary to measure the recovery rate from any peak, although that might be an interesting measurement as well.

Sounds like you are doing great!

So many really wonderful and inspiring people on this site who are willing to share their stories...it's just tremendous.

Keep me/us posted on your HR recovery findings. I figure the more details more of us provide, the more useful the body of knowledge we have for others to exploit!!

H

[MitralMan]

Something weird happens when I do really well -- I slack off.

So I put on more weight, and didn't run until today.

It was beautiful outside - 69 and dry.

Ran two miles, walked the rest. Legs felt heavy, weight on my feet felt heavy, muscles felt waay tight.

avg HR 144
max HR 190
ascent 140 feet
avg pace 11:59
HR recovery (03:00): 32 bpm

mile 1 11:52 avg HR 140 max HR 190
mile 2 12:06 avg HR 149 max HR 158
mile 3 20:44 (walked)

[tommy]

Mitralman, I know what you mean. I sometimes get real satisfied and lose some of the passion to push on. That may be a sign that you're due for a break. I've seen a concept of "macro cycles" where every 3 or 4 weeks you take a slow week to recover.

[MitralMan]

3 miles, my usual hilly run, relatively cool out. Beautiful day. But I've been feeling like I'm carrying extra weight -- hey, I AM!!

The worst part of the hilly section (and this is NOT major hills -- total ascent is about 200 feet) is about half a mile in. Maybe it's because I ran earlier today than I usually do, but I was huffing and puffing at 135 - 140bpm at this point. Still, I got through it and then there's a nice down hill section before another shorter climb.

I took a page out of Mark's handbook, and tried to run the way my body told me to, without regard to the monitor.

So:

3.0 miles

avg HR 133
max HR 165
avg pace 12:33
after 8 minutes, recovery was approx 50 bpm (I forgot to check at 3:00)

mile 1 12:17 avg HR 126 max HR 165
mile 2 12:26 avg HR 136 max HR 153
mile 3 12:56 avg HR 138 max HR 154

I did take two weeks off, and that's probably what this is about.

[tommy]

Don't be discouraged.
You might try cutting the next workout back and rebuilding from there.
It shouldn't take long.
The point is to continue enjoy.

I try to run like my body wants me to, but I sometimes don't listen as I should.
So I use the monitor as enforcement.

[MitralMan]

I also think I've worn out my current pair of running shoes. New pair should arrive tomorrow.

[MitralMan]

'course, it could also be the fact that I ran on a treadmill today, but I think the shoes were the big variable.

NO heaviness in my legs. Shoes were NOTICEABLY cushier (these were New Balance 1010's replacing my older NB 1122's -- I don't think the shoes are radically different, I think I just went too long on the 1122's).

I decided to push it a bit, but go easy, too. So:

3.0 miles
38:34
avg pace 12:50
avg HR 115 (69% of max)
max HR 142 (79% of max)

mile 1: steady state jog 11:36 avg HR 116 max HR 129
mile 2: steady state walk 14:59 avg HR 107 max HR 128
mile 3: intervals by .1 miles 11:56 avg HR 126 max HR 142

I'll cross-train on the elliptical tomorrow.

I'm also going to get an armband for my iPod. Must have my music for this weekend!!

While 12:50 is well off 12:09, I'm really pleased at the corresponding drop in my HR.

[runningscared]

Hi,

I hope you don't mind my cutting in on your post. I just have to tell you it is so encouraging to see that you all are running again after having OHS.

I have not had to have it as of yet, but I predict I will in the not too distant future and it just makes me feel good to see that I will be able to continue my running after having OHS.

Mary, 46yr old female, (ha, guess the name "Mary" kind of gives that away)
Moderate AV leakage, 1st discovered 3 yrs ago. Yearly monitoring is what my Cardiologists suggests at this time.

[MitralMan]

Mark was running 12:00 miles post-surgery not too long ago, and now he's down in the 8's! It can be done. But what's great about all of this is that I think we're blazing new territory in being so precise about how our recoveries are going.

To get your post and to see that we're helping in even the smallest way is EXACTLY what this thread and others like are about!!

MM

[sylviayasgur]

hi all,
i just want you to know that i have the utmost respect for your efforts, discipline and just plain will to accomplish these incredible feats.

you are such an inspiration to all, heart patients and healthy ones.

keep up the great work and achievements and please keep posting them for us all to see and marvel at.

stay well all,
sylvia

[MitralMan]

Weight 201.2
Body fat: 25.6%
Morning resting heart rate: 59pbm
Oxygen saturation: 97%
Blood pressure: 109/70

Likely race pace: 12:40 (still not sure if I should run/walk 7mph/3.5mph or do the steady plog (plod+jog) at an average 4.7mph)

Where I was 18 months ago, immediately after surgery:

Weight: 211
Body fat: I'd stopped caring
MRHR: 105 bpm
Oxygen saturation: I didn't know what it was
Blood pressure: I thought it was low, but I didn't know
How high I could raise my arms: just below my shoulders
How far I could run: you've got to be kidding

Where I was 20 months ago, when I realized something was wrong:

5 mile race
elapsed time 1:04:43
pace: 12:57


Some things are priceless. For everything else, there's...

Mastercard. Visa. American Express. Discover. Travelers' checks. Cash. Barter. Wampum. Denial.

ENJOY this Memorial Day Weekend everyone!

[sylviayasgur]

please let us know how you do in the race.
hope you have fun doing it!
feel good,
sylvia

[MitralMan]

...and thanks, Sylvia, for your words of encouragement!

What a lovely group of people who came together at Paul & Michele's...

I'll post in the marathon relay thread tomorrow, but just to finish off my own personal metrics through today's marathon relay:

I ran the first, short leg (3.1 mi). This is when I learned that my Polar Speed+Distance pod needed to be recalibrated, since at the 2 mile mark, my monitor read 2.25!

So: according to my miscalibrated monitor, I set a new PB with an 11:09 pace. In reality, I ran a 12:45 pace.

BUT THE POINT IS: I ran a full minute faster per mile than my best time up until today. Maybe it was the rush of the crowd; the encouragement of the team; wonderfully cool temperature (the rest of the team wasn't so lucky as the sun began to heat things up); or...fear!

distance (corrected): 3.1 miles
average HR: 137
max HR: 158
average pace (uncorrected): 11:09
average pace (corrected): 12:45
max pace (uncorrected): 7:33

I felt great, never pushed too hard. I'm really encouraged.

Mitral Man, aka Turtle Man

[msiwik]

Hugh: Had to post to tell you that it was such an awesome feeling watching you come in to the first stall and make the handoff to Paul for the first leg of the marathon relay team. And then to look down the street and see our daughters up on the roof (ok the roof of a tatoo parlor)! I think you are ready for 3 to 4 regular 3 mile runs a week, with 2-3 in your 60 to 75% heart rate and one a little faster. We will talk soon! Mark

[MitralMan]

...and had a great time doing it! I think you pushed hardest of all.

I AM going to step up the training. I feel great today. How about you?

By the way, here are my uncorrected splits:

mile 1 11:56
mile 2 11:14
mile 3 10:41

I believe my actual times were 14% slower.