Memory loss?

[MSG Morrissey]

This may sound wierd. Has anyone had difficulty with memory post surgery? My physical health is great but I have noticed a significant memory deficit since my AVR. :confused:

[Mary]

I don't know how long it's been since you had surgery, but I think memory loss closely following the replacement is pretty common. You've had alot of drugs pumped into you and the bypass machine can also contribute to some haziness.

I'm happy to say that mentally I seem alot more on the ball than I did before surgery. It must be that extra oxygen in my blood stream that's helped my brain cells. ;) ;) ;)

[Christina L]

yes. My brain cells have been permanently altered since my surgery two years ago, but it is nothing that I can't handle. It is frustrating at times, but the improvement in my physical health has far outweighed the decline in my memory, etc.

As I have been told (and have read up on), the cause of the decline in brain function is the heart-lung bypass machine.

Christina L.

[MSG Morrissey]

Thanks Christina, this is something I have struggled with.

[Yaps]

My answer is; yes.... whether from O2 lack, or surgery it self.. I dont know..but doing crosswords etc seem to help me.(and yahoo calendar, if I remember to mark the date :o )....

[Ambience]

Prior to my surgery I was an A+ student. I was holding down classes during recovery and found that I could not concentrate for long periods of time like I had been able to do before. It took about a year before I was able to retain significant short term information and I still have to write down phone numbers/people's names/tasks as to not forget them fifteen minutes to a half hour down the road. I have little tricks now that I use to remind myself of things, such as post-its, grocery lists, Google! ;) I think my main problem was my dose of beta blockers was too high, which left me exhausted through the day and horrible memory. It's now about three years later and everything is bouncing back. I studied and passed for a computer cert, and I'm getting ready to enroll in law school. My biggest suggestion is to actively test and train your mind back to its original state. Also talk to your doctor about your memory problem and medication that may be causing it.

[Paul_N]

Yes ... and still have some tough times almost 2 years later. Was told that it has something to do with being on the pump for 4 hours. I guess I'm tending to rationlize it away as part of getting older too. About the only thing I do diffrent today than before surgery is to carry a pen with me. I take lots of notes where as I didn't have to do that before.

As long as I can remember dates that pertain to my wife, b-day, annv., etc. I think I'll be okay! :)

[Michaelena]

My first OHS, 21 years ago, I experienced memory loss. This time, only my concentration has been affected and I think it is from too high blood pressure med. My med has been lowered and I have seen a difference.

Michaelena

[bvdr]

I too feel as if my memory has been affected. I have to concentrate more when learning a new skill or material as well. Somedays it isn't noticable to me but there are a few days, particularily if I am tired, that I feel foggy.

[Mb]

I think I recall reading somewhere that memory loss/brain function is evident the first year after being on the machine, and then improves. Then, at about 5 years, it declines again. Does anyone else remember reading this?
Marybeth

[ALCapshaw2]

Memory / cognitive loss following Open Heart Surgery (or any major surgery?) is one of the "dirty little secrets" of OHS. I've heard that several studies are being conducted to see if they can improve on this 'little problem'.

When I had my second surgery, I asked about that issue and the surgeon told me that the FILTERS on the Heart - Lung Machine can be an issue. He stated that his hospital used the BEST available.

Another member reported that slowing the rate at which the body is brought back to normal temperature following surgery (by only a few minutes) helps to minimize 'overheating' of the brain.

Mental stimulation and 'brain teasers' seem to be the only aids 'after the fact'.

'AL Capshaw'

[Sherry]

I am eight years post-op. I was on the machine for six straight hours because the doc tried to repair it (mitral) first and then ended up replacing it. I was foggy for sometime after, but have eventually regained most if not all of it back. In fact, two years ago, I managed an A out of a graduate-level Shakespeare course that involved some of the most intense reading, researching, and writing skills you can imagine. I had been warned by fellow students about how hard it was to get an A from this professor but still managed it.

Keep in mind that you're still in the post-op stage, and hopefully, things will get better. I agree with the others, keep yourself challenged. Best of luck.

[hensylee]

do a search right here in VR on 'pumphead' - as we are fondly called by cardios - you will find much pro/con opinions.

[Dan W]

Yes, I have had a lot of memory loss. I was also told it was because of the bypass machine and especially because I was on it longer than the surgeon wanted. It seems like most of my memory loss is in my short term memory. I can remember alot of events and people from before my operation but since then it seems like I have a hard time reembering things. I would get really frustrated at first because I would never forget anyting before. I have adjusted to it and it is not that bad. The one main thing that helps me deal with stuff it to just think that it beats being dead. Hope this helps.

[MSG Morrissey]

My memory loss seems different. I have VERY little recollection of what people say are significant events in my life before my surgery. Example, I have moved back to my home town after retiring from the Army. I have my kids attending the same small private Catholic school that I attended, I can't tell you one thing about my HS experience but get flashes of memories when I am in the building. I know I used to rememeber the things I did people I knew.. Ditto for those experiences in the Army before AVR. There are people I KNOW I knew well but I just cannot recall anmes where/when etc of the relationships...I mean to say it is like I have really had 2 lives, pre and post surg... the memory post surg is pretty much intact but for a problem often with the correct word for an object. EX I was trying to tell my son (learning how to drive) to pull up to the man hole cover on the road (to make a turn) i said "pullup to the metal thing on the floor and turn". On and on go those examples. I DID NOT have this effasia(sp?) before AVR. Nothing I can do about it, just seeing if there are any like stories out there.
Brian

[Cris N]

Any history of being on any of the statin family of medicines? (Lipitor, Zocor & the like). One of the possible side effects is amnesia.

Cris

[hensylee]

I really believe that one of these days there will be stories coming out about the statins.

Brian, I have concentration problems, can't remember names. Have you considered a visit to a neurologist? It might be in order after a bit more recuperation from surgery if this continues to be a large problem. Most of us who have the pumphead syndrome manage to cope with it and make adjustments as we need them. I don't recall any of us losing parts of our past.

I play some of the mind challenging games every day on computer to stay mentally alert.

[JohnnyV_46]

Lipitor daily here since my surgery....I really don't know if it's made a difference or not.

[Randy & Robyn]

This may sound wierd. Has anyone had difficulty with memory post surgery? My physical health is great but I have noticed a significant memory deficit since my AVR. :confused:

I'll let you know after I have my surgery.....oh, yeah, already had it....I think... :rolleyes:

[Ross]

I'll let you know after I have my surgery.....oh, yeah, already had it....I think... :rolleyes:
Your suffering for CRS Syndrome. That's not a medical condition. :D

[MSG Morrissey]

Any history of being on any of the statin family of medicines? (Lipitor, Zocor & the like). One of the possible side effects is amnesia.

Cris
YES!
I was alternating on both Lipitor/Zocor post op for better part of 4 years

[RobThatsMe]

Hi Everyone,

I do have some information regarding this topic.

It appears to be true that Memory Loss can occur from use of the Heat / Lung by-pass machine.

I have had extensive tests done on this personally this past year, and my doctors agree that memory loss is indeed a possiblity for me due to my surgery.

Many studies were conducted by Duke Universty. You can go to their web site and do a search on memory loss and the heart/lung machiine.

Also, this topic was a feature on ABC a few years back.

The new England Journal of Medicine has also published the following article.


The New England Journal of Medicine -- February 8, 2001 -- Vol. 344, No. 6

Longitudinal Assessment of Neurocognitive Function after Coronary-Artery Bypass Surgery
Mark F. Newman, Jerry L. Kirchner, Barbara Phillips-Bute, Vincent Gaver, Hilary Grocott, Robert H. Jones, Daniel B. Mark, Joseph G. Reves, James A. Blumenthal, for the Neurological Outcome Research Group and the Cardiothoracic Anesthesiology Research Endeavors Investigators

Abstract
Background. Cognitive decline complicates early recovery after coronary-artery bypass grafting (CABG) and may be evident in as many as three quarters of patients at the time of discharge from the hospital and a third of patients after six months. We sought to determine the course of cognitive change during the five years after CABG and the effect of perioperative decline on long-term cognitive function.
Methods. In 261 patients who underwent CABG, neurocognitive tests were performed preoperatively (at base line), before discharge, and six weeks, six months, and five years after CABG surgery. Decline in postoperative function was defined as a drop of 1 SD or more in the scores on tests of any one of four domains of cognitive function. (A reduction of 1 SD represents a decline in function of approximately 20 percent.) Overall neurocognitive status was assessed with a composite cognitive index score representing the sum of the scores for the individual domains. Factors predicting long-term cognitive decline were determined by multivariable logistic and linear regression.
Results. Among the patients studied, the incidence of cognitive decline was 53 percent at discharge, 36 percent at six weeks, 24 percent at six months, and 42 percent at five years. We investigated predictors of cognitive decline at five years and found that cognitive function at discharge was a significant predictor of long-term function (P<0.001).
Conclusions. These results confirm the relatively high prevalence and persistence of cognitive decline after CABG and suggest a pattern of early improvement followed by a later decline that is predicted by the presence of early postoperative cognitive decline. Interventions to prevent or reduce short- and long-term cognitive decline after cardiac surgery are warranted. (N Engl J Med 2001;344:395-402.)
Source Information
From the Department of Anesthesiology (M.F.N., J.L.K., B.P.-B., V.G., H.G., J.G.R.), the Department of Surgery (R.H.J.), the Division of Cardiology (D.B.M.), and the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Science (J.A.B.), Duke University Medical Center, Durham, N.C. Address reprint requests to Dr. Newman at the Division of Cardiothoracic Anesthesia, Box 3094, Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC 27710, or at newma005@mc.duke.edu.
The members of the study groups are listed in the Appendix.
Appendix
The members of the Neurologic Outcome Research Group and the Cardiothoracic Anesthesiology Research Endeavors Investigators of the Duke Heart Center were as follows: Director: M. Newman; Codirector: J. Blumenthal; Anesthesiology: F. Clements, N. de Bruijn, K. Grichnik, H. Grocott, S. Hill, A. Hilton, J. Mathew, J. Reves, D. Schwinn, M. Stafford Smith, A. Grigore, M. Gamoso, G. Mackensen, R. Panten, T. Stanley, L. Ti, J. Kirchner, A. Butler, V. Gaver, W. Cohen, B. Funk, M. Tirronen, W. White, and B. Phillips-Bute; Behavioral Medicine: J. Blumenthal, M. Babyak, and P. Khatri; Neurology: C. Graffagnino, D. Laskowitz, A. Saunders, and W. Strittmatter; Surgery: R. Anderson, T. D'Amico, R. Davis, D. Glower, R. Harpole, J. Jaggers, R. Jones, K. Landolfo, C. Milano, P. Smith, and W. Wolfe; Cardiology: D. Mark, E. Peterson, M. Sketch, and R. Califf.
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Copyright © 2001 by the Massachusetts Medical Society. All rights


If anyone finds more information on this topic, please post it or forward a copy to me please.

Rob

[MSG Morrissey]

Thanks Rob, I hope to learn more about this also. I feel as if I am in the latter "42%"
Brian

[ALCapshaw2]

My AVR surgeon told me tht the quality of the filters is a factor and he "used the best".

Another member of VR.com reported that slowing the post heart surgery heating process (by only a few minutes) helped to prevent 'overheating' of the brain which had also been indicated as a contributing factor to cognitive loss.

'AL Capshaw'

[hensylee]

Rob, you and I are both past the five years now - mine was March 2000 and maybe yours April 2000? I find that I have lost some memory as time has passed. I always had trouble remembering names but now it's pretty much a problem - new people, not old friends. I have to search mentally for some things I used to have quickly at hand. Thankfully, I don't have to be in the workplace like most of our members and that's a Godsend.

Thanks for the article. It is quite enlightening because the five years since they came out with this pumpheadedness is now here and some of us are finding we might be in that higher percentile.

Course, as you all know, I am just old and that could be the whole thing - or some of it.

Thanks for your ongoing research and letting us in on it.

[hayden]

uhh what was the question? :)

[RobThatsMe]

Hi Ann,

Yes we are in the same year & month class. My surgery was March 23, 2000.
As best a can remember that is.

I have had my doctors run several tests and they agree there may be some damage due to the heart lung machine. It is still har to prove, but at least I have it on record, and will continue to reseach.

IF anyone has any articles or other current information regarding this topic please post them.

Hope you are doing well Ann, and that you are away from the path of the hurricane.

I spent most of last night in the ER. Seems I have a nasty case of A-Fib again. The last time it hit was was in May. Guess I deserved it though, seems I stayed out late, had a bit more to drink than normal and to top it off, onlyhad 3 1/2 hours sleep. Lack of sleep and alcohol... the perfect mixer for A-fib~

Ohh well.... I have been in it now for 18 hrs. They gave me a shoot in the ER, that brought it down, so they released me.. then it came back 4 hours later. Good thing I am alreay on Coumadin. One good think about taking that frug is that you are already medicated to fight any portential clots from A-Fib.

Enjoy this beautiful fall seson,
Rob



Rob, you and I are both past the five years now - mine was March 2000 and maybe yours April 2000? I find that I have lost some memory as time has passed. I always had trouble remembering names but now it's pretty much a problem - new people, not old friends. I have to search mentally for some things I used to have quickly at hand. Thankfully, I don't have to be in the workplace like most of our members and that's a Godsend.

Thanks for the article. It is quite enlightening because the five years since they came out with this pumpheadedness is now here and some of us are finding we might be in that higher percentile.

Course, as you all know, I am just old and that could be the whole thing - or some of it.

Thanks for your ongoing research and letting us in on it.

[Ben Smith]

My job revolves around OSHA and EPA regulations. I used to have a reputation for knowing the regs better than even the inspectors...... NOT ANYMORE !!

I can not remember names, regulations, hell even birthdays of my nieces & nephews. My wife and I's 16th anniversary is this weekend and my daughter reminded me tonight.....not good !!

(I do have these important ones in my outlook calender to remind me)

Has anyone looked for studies describing advances into regaining memory capacity?

I would love to have my mind back again!!

Hell, what did I just say ???????


hehehe

Ben

[JohnN]

My surgeon said he packed my head in ice for several hours during my valve replacement a month ago to prevent brain damage. I don't notice any significant loss of memory capability yet, although at age 72 I don't remember names like I did when I was age 40.

[jeffp]

I would love to have my mind back again!!

Hi Ben, I know what you're battling. I keep a PDA with appointments and notes on it so I don't forget to be somewhere. I've gotten totally disoriented on the way to somewhere I've half a dozen times before (now keep detailed local map in the car). A few other neurological things going on as well that are very frustrating. Sometimes words just aren't there, once a while get woozy without reason, concentration is hard especially in a noisy environment. I used to able to watch TV, read a book and talk on the phone at the same time. Now I will sometimes put the TV on mute and read the closed captioning as processing the visual input, spoken dialog and background sound tracks at the same time it too demanding. (It has cut back on TV time though.)
They suspect it is due to a combination of being on the pump for 10 hours (long surgery) and microemboli sometimme soon after the surgery. Had MRI done and there are a number of very small focal damaged areas in the lower central cerebellum. They may or may not be the cause.
One good side of having some memory loss...Last week I had a heated discussion with my wife one morning and she later called up from work to say she was sorry, etc and honestly I did not remember anything about it. She though it was so nice of me not to hold a grudge and let go of it so graciously.
As to what to do about it...I couldn't tell you. keep your mind busy and you eventually learn various mental workarounds. Good Luck with it.

[Mary]

http://www.aarpmagazine.org/lifestyle/king_pong_brain.html Anyone play Ping Pong?

[MSG Morrissey]

Jeff/Ben,
I feel your pain brothers. I am glad I'm not the Lone Ranger in this battle. I realized all of this decline post AVR.
I am going to try to learn a foreign language to maintain the edge and to try to stir up areas of the brain that may not be used or have become dormant. Wish me luck!

Warm regards,
Brian