Can’t We Just All Get Along?????? [Archive]

gadgetman

March 29th, 2005, 12:04 PM

Deep Breath :(

I start this new thread (here in “SMALL TALK”) to “type” my opinion on recent discussions dealing with subject matter/not subject matter.

Wow!!! Are we trying to get too clinical here? I have “typed” answers to “off topic” threads before and voiced my “opinion” (just like A**Holes—everybody’s got ONE) on the need for some restraint but not censorship. I am guilty (as are others) of getting “off topic” on a thread, much to the dismay of some. However, I served 26+ years in the military helping to defend ALL Americans (and other countries right—as a tip of the hat to our “out of State” members) to say whatever they want, whether I agree with it or not. Of course, you can’t yell “FIRE” in a crowded theater unless there really is one, but freedom is the cornerstone of most of our countries. I know, respect and understand that VR.com was founded and is maintained for a specific reason and monitors (Hank & Ross—to name a few) must exist to keep order. They normally do this in the background without us even knowing they are there—except when they removed the LOCATIONS—three wet noodles. There are some out there that need to be smitten from time to time. By its nature, the internet is open to both good and bad. That occasional hacker will “join”, post some questionable thread, and then disappear. As a member of several other forums (ranging from ZAPPERs for my ICD, TRACTORS and OUTDOOR LIVING for my living in the country interest, to several game sites dealing with computer games I play (much to my Wife’s dismay), I see these sites go “off subject” to items usually discussed around the “water cooler”. For those who no longer work or are recovering from their surgery, these sites sometimes turn out to be our “water cooler”.

I have been surprised by the “fuddy duddies” that want to place specific limits on what our family can discuss here and/or limit our responses to brief “subject matter” only. Unfortunately, I (like Ross) handle most challenges in my life with a strong sense of humor. It comes through some (not all) of my “typings” here and at other sites. As Barry (I think) said, “typing” does not lend itself to sarcastic humor because the tongue in cheek (another smilie Ross?) sometimes doesn’t come across. And Barry (not picking on you—yes I am) is one of those guys that enjoys walking (in this case "typing") into a group, bringing up some controversial topic, then sitting back and watching the reaction. My God, there have been almost 160 postings to the Terri thread!!!! Each of us here has life experiences and wisdom to share with others. It may be Drugs (both legal and illegal, been there, done that with one or the other—or both) or Guns. It may be Heart related. It may be related to other Hospital experiences or trials. It may be opinions about NDE, weird dreams or experiences, memory loss, Doctors and Surgeons, new members to our family (either person or pet), recent losses to our family (either person or pet), bad food experiences, or others that I have read (and mostly enjoyed) here since my short stay. I look at this site as our “dinner table” where we can sit down and discuss our fears, loves, and experiences with others who have taken (or will take) a Heart Related Walk. I have cried, laughed out loud, and said “you’ve got to be kidding me” on a lot of threads here. We all have a lot to share. Let us continue to allow sharing, without judging.

Must now sign off and go do my physical therapy. Enjoy.

May God Bless this Site, our Monitors, and All Its Members,

Danny

tommy

March 29th, 2005, 12:44 PM

I look at this site as our “dinner table” where we can sit down and discuss our fears, loves, and experiences with others who have taken (or will take) a Heart Related Walk. I like the dinner table metaphor. :)
--------------------------------------------

...one of those guys that enjoys walking (in this case "typing") into a group, bringing up some controversial topic, then sitting back and watching the reaction. I don't like my family members dropping these "grenades" :eek: at the dinner table. (I know, Danny, lousy metaphor - you know what real greandes are :o )
--------------------------------------------

“typing” does not lend itself to sarcastic humor because the tongue in cheek (another smilie Ross?) sometimes doesn’t come across. Good point. It re-enforces my desire to avoid arguing about topics that are off the mission of the forum. :)

Danny,
Thank you for your military service. :) :) :)

geebee

March 29th, 2005, 01:34 PM

I have mixed feelings about what should and should not be discussed but I am one who is against censorship.

However, I realize this site is dedicated to people who have had or are facing valve related surgeries (or their loved ones). Obviously that should be the focal point.

That being said, I think it is just as important for newbies to see that we have lives, thoughts, opinions, etc. AFTER OHS. Even if some of our thoughts get scattered for awhile after surgery :D , our minds don't get destroyed or our lives don't halt because of our medical situations.

I think that is why dialogues outside the valve topic are important. Also, because some of them do get lively - not that I have anything to do with that :eek: :eek:

Wise

March 29th, 2005, 01:45 PM

I am also solidly against censorship. However, if this forum had been in this state at the time I first was referred to it, I believe I would have been turned off and missed out on the vital information it provides and the wonderful people involved. Just my thoughts.

Ross

March 29th, 2005, 02:45 PM

BionicRedneck

March 29th, 2005, 03:25 PM

And this folks, is the reason why I'm around and whether censoring is approved of you or not, will take place if necessary. All it takes is one person to come in and stir the pot. Get everyone fired up so to speak. Get them going at each others throats and then sit back and watch the destruction of a forum. For some, this is a game they play all over the web. I've seen it many times before and I'm usually the first one to start hitting the siren about it. Professional Trolling and it's darn effective if people let it be.

I would have to say that this should serve as a warning to the pot stirers, that should this continue, you will be handed your hat and shown the door!

Have I made myself clear on this one?

And That's the Bottom Line, Cause Ross, Said So.

I am a noob who now has a place on the internet, a home so to speak. I dont want to be from a dysfunctional home. I have really enjoyed coming here and reading everything. It is nice to have a place to go and vent to people who know exactly when you are talkinga bout. A open ear is nice, but an experienced open ear is better. Up until I came here I often wondered if I would ever meet anyone who had the same type of problem I did. Out of the 36 Million people in the US I am sure there are alot more pple who have healthy hearts. Plust talking about your angina surgery or telling someone what it was like when they removed the tubes urine catherther included aint just a topic you put on a sign and walk the streets with.

But a fight here and there aint too bad, seing someones feathers get rubbed the wrong way sometimes can make ppl laugh and make their crappy day not as crappy.

tobagotwo

March 29th, 2005, 04:17 PM

I believe Wise Smith has hit on the crux of it. What follows are my thoughts, and they aren't aimed at anyone, so no one should take them personally.

The ValveReplacement.com website performs a service of information and comfort to people who have reached a critical and ofttimes terrifying turn in their lives. We all know what it is to feel alone in this desperate situation, even when surrounded by people who love us. We have all had an opportunity to access the distilled knowledge pool that has gathered here, and it has helped us to make sense of what has befallen us and to cope with the next steps we had to take.

It is not my call to make, but I believe that the site is intended to be just what it is: a focussed vehicle for people who have had or are going to need valve replacement or repair surgery, their significant others, and a few kindred spirits with compatible heart-related problems or pertinent knowledge.

As such, it wouldn't be intended as a forum for all things for all people. The Small Talk forum would be a convenience for members to maintain their relationships with each other. Those relationships help foster the collaborative spirit that so enhances the value of this site to its constituents and newcomers.

The site declares its limited venue up front, so it's not holding out on promises of free speech. It holds no control over access to the internet, nor does it seek to impinge anyone's abilities to pursue their expression anywhere else on the web. The fact that pornography sales pitches still float into my email spam folder tells me that free speech on the web is still very much alive and...hmm, very much alive, anyway.

A Bible study site would have no problems asking members to stick to the general topic, rather than providing them a forum to discuss the value of Renoir's work over Picasso's, or the relative joys of robbing liquor stores for quick cash on weekends. An automotive site would not long suffer a debate over people's real feelings about foot fetishisms or sex with animals - even if it were being done in the back seats of cars.

Why not? Because web search engines will drag in foot fetishists and liquor store bandits instead of Bible enthusiasts and auto fans, based on the contents of the posts. They might stay on the site, posting about their personal joys until they have driven most of the original site members away. So, what value is presented by a marginal topic can be severely mitigated by the damage it can do to the structure as a whole. Thus, almost every site on the web has monitors.

Their actions don't violate anyone's legal rights to free speech, because other venues in the same medium (the Web) still abound for every topic imaginable.

If you've had surgery, please think of those who are to follow. They seek stability, support, and information for the trial they are about to endure. This site is incredibly special, and it would be sad to think that anyone would skip by it and miss its value due to a squabble over topics that are largely unrelated to VR. There's an ocean of solidly heart-related subject matter here to research, share, discuss - and squabble about - with each other on this site, both for the benefit of ourselves and those who will come after.

Best wishes,

joy

March 29th, 2005, 04:37 PM

Hey guys, how are you doing? I am glad that this thread was started. I must say that I love this site...there are so many great people here that answer my questions(whether they are about valvereplacements or not), and offer comfort and support to me when I need it. That is the great thing about this place. I cannot say I have never been a wild part of a debate, but I just have to say, I usually don't look for the controversial threads. This place is the first place I heard about Terri Schiavo. Ok, I am a little out of the news loop, but that's the whole reasoning for it. Anyhow, I must thank you Hank, and Ross for starting this site(and monitering it) and helping keep us a family.

Ross

March 29th, 2005, 06:48 PM

I just want it clearly understood that I will, by any means necessary, look out for this sites interests. I would not be doing my job if I did otherwise. You must also realize that in the course of doing so, I may not be popular with some of the things I do, but if you've been here awhile, you know what is and is not acceptable, so it should not be a problem for you in the first place. If it is a problem for you, perhaps it's time you start your own forum where you can say whatever and whenever and let it go the way YOU want it too. The site has outgrown the everything is acceptable thing, that is why Hank changed what the small talk forum is about. That doesn't mean that everything becomes dead serious and no one can have fun, but as Tobagotwo said, it's more for sharing and bonding, not for disassembly and dismemberment. When debates become attacks, regardless of how high stress the thread subject is or suddenly provocative subjects are machine gun posted, it's time to really rethink a few things or eliminate a few problems.

bvdr

March 29th, 2005, 07:09 PM

Thank-you, Ross, and I appreciate your efforts. Too many years and tears have been invested into developing this site to let it get messed up now.

Karlynn

March 29th, 2005, 07:11 PM

I was thinking that it's about time for a new member to wander in and ask a sex question. That always gets us laughing and thinking together. ;)

Marguerite53

March 29th, 2005, 07:22 PM

I agree with the sentiments of Wise and Bob (tobagotwo) and Ross. This site is very important to me because it is where I have learned the most about my condition. It is where I know I can come for support. It is where, when my time comes, I will get the most understanding.

I also enjoy the lighthearted moments and learning about people's personalities and habits.

This site is about success. About beating the odds. About carrying on. There are lots of other places for hot debate and current events and controversies. I think keeping VR.com focused is a good thing.

Just my two cents! Marguerite

joy

March 29th, 2005, 07:35 PM

Ross

March 29th, 2005, 07:47 PM

I have a question, is it just the controversial stuff, I mean, can we post the things that are going on in our personal lives? I mean this site has been supportive of stuff that isn't nessesarily heart related for me as well. I was just wondering.

Joy
Joy I don't intend to stop seeing things like this and I'm sure Hank doesn't either. No, it's not going to be strictly it's heart related in here in small talk. In fact, very little will change. We just don't want to see the current trend continuing any further. for those wondering, I've gotten a ton of complaints over the last 3 days. I'm sure Hank has had his share also. Feelings have been hurt, people are mad at one another, and the list goes on. Time to put a stop to this nonsense. The pot stirrers can only work their magic if you allow them to do so. By getting bent out of shape at one another, your only fulfulling the pot stirrers dreams. The goal in these instances is forum destruction. Once it's all disassembled and they are happy, they go off to another and do the same thing all over again. ;)

joy

March 29th, 2005, 07:51 PM

That's good, it really upsets me to see people who just want to disassemble such a wonderful site. Everyone here has been so supportive, even of my non heart related issues. Of course, this site helped me decide what kind of valve I wanted, and were very supportive of me when I had my TIA and really needed to just vent. For that, I must say, Thanks.

Harrybaby666

March 29th, 2005, 07:55 PM

I have to agree with Ross, Hank, Betty, and Margaruite. There is only so much you can take of a subject and then it seems like you are just beating a dead issue all to pieces. I stay out of controversy for this reason, and I think that one can express sympathy on certain news issues, but that's as far as it should go, as I think politics really has no place in the medical website whereas it is likely to stir someone's blood pressure up and wreak havoc on the intended purpose of the website.

I have to say that I have alot more fun, learning about the people, how they are effected by valve and heart issues and medical issues, not to mention how their lives are where they live, and just general fun and humor, not the stress generating, blood pressure raising, anger making politics of controversy. When it comes to issues like this Terry Schivo issue, I can understand expressing sympathy and offering a prayer, but the political issues of it just have been drug out WAAAAYYYY Too Far. Harrybaby666 :D :mad: :( :o :D

Ross

March 29th, 2005, 07:55 PM

Mary

March 29th, 2005, 07:58 PM

I sure hope this ends it! It has been disheartening. It use to be the big news was an upcoming surgery and then subsequent recovery. Lately the new/pending valve replacement surgeries are lost within the "current events" threads.
I know I have a different outlook since I'm still waiting, but valve replacement is still the topic that holds the most interest for me.
Unless it's, "Is there sex after valve replacement?" :D :D

gadgetman

March 29th, 2005, 08:08 PM

Haven't had my head handed to me on a platter yet :) . Maybe another Smilie Ross.

hosacktom,

Being in the Air Force I didn't have to worry too much about "grenades" except when I was in basic training. However, when Desert Storm One kicked off and I wound up spending four days at a Command Post (without being allowed to call the wife--not the first time--sure was glad she was understanding) I wasn't sure what I might face.

So glad to be of service--Air Force that is :) .

To everyone so far and those that read this post later,

But just to show you how things can suddenly take a surprising turn look up Becca's comment in the "Events" Thread. She said:

"All this talk is making me nervous. I don't want to have an event! I think because the words "near death" are being used. I still have 2 months to wait and have been pretty calm, but now I am starting to feel pretty nervous! BECCA"

So sometimes our "types" (new word???) can provide comfort or scare the heck out of people. As I have no desire to see pictures or videos about what I went through, I'm glad the "family" has refrained from actually posting the pictures. That is what our "private" mail can handle (so PLEASE, PLEASE don't send me any :eek: ).

So, no matter which direction we take, I'll still be here posting away until Hank or Ross "pull my plug" :eek: or the good Lord calls me home :cool: . If I offend someone in the process--tough :p --just kidding :D :D Lighten up will ya :rolleyes: .

May God guide us in our "types" and remind us who our audience is. I still remember (and seeing from the postings we get so do y'all) how much help and comfort VR.com has been and probably will continue to be. See y'all at the Dinner Table (one that never closes :) )

May God Bless,

Danny

PS: Karlynn--Per your comment" I was thinking that it's about time for a new member to wander in and ask a sex question. That always gets us laughing and thinking together." Does it have to be "new"--I'm Male by the way--although I did put down "NOT ENOUGH" on a Medical Form that asked SEX? _________ :D . Nurse didn't see the humor in it and made me fill out the entire form again--had no choice she ripped up the other one :mad: .

Ross

March 29th, 2005, 08:12 PM

Nurse didn't see the humor in it and made me fill out the entire form again--had no choice she ripped up the other one :mad: . This wasn't Nurse Murch by chance? :eek: I'd have told her get her tape and start taping cause I ain't writing another one!

hensylee

March 29th, 2005, 08:14 PM

sex has been mentioned twice in this thread. Now that's a good subject. And fit for small talk.

Speaking of which, Joy, is he back?

geebee

March 29th, 2005, 08:15 PM

For those of you who have no clue what I'm talking about when refering to trolls, please read this link below. I do believe your all going to see some familiar things going on here contained in this article!

Thanks for the link, Ross.

Since a lot of folks have tuned out to the Schiavo thread, I wanted to take a minute to say I am sorry for my part in making it unpleasant. I did not intend to do so and I realize I got carried away and should have stopped sooner (or not started at all). Please accept my heartfelt apology. :o :o :o

gadgetman

March 29th, 2005, 08:20 PM

This wasn't Nurse Murch by chance? :eek: I'd have told her get her tape and start taping cause I ain't writing another one!

Don't recall her name :) but she favored Klinger from the MASH days :D . Ain't gona argue with that :eek: . It was almost as bad as those "consent forms" they hand you just before they wheel you off to do only God knows what!!! Why does every form telling all the dangers always end in "DEATH" :eek: ? Why not just "final change of address" instead ;) ?

May God Bless,

Danny

joy

March 29th, 2005, 08:22 PM

No, he's not back yet, not until June 9th. I probably won't be on the site for a little bit after he returns :D I'll be busy putting most of my energy and attention towards Kevin!

Rain

March 29th, 2005, 08:22 PM

Did Danny just called me a wet noodle?! :eek: lol hilarious!! :D :D And if so... who are my two wet noodle friends?? Would that be you and Ross?

I have so much respect for Hanks ability to moderate this site. He’s done a fantastic job over the years. Although I think we oughtta all know when to tie our fingers behind our backs and shut up........ obviously some of us don’t.

I was almost one of those people!! Hope I deleted the last post in this thread before anyone read it. :eek:

Geebee, I'm glad someone was there to stick up for Terri. I'm not nearly as diplomatic as you are... so I try really hard to stay out of those kinds of threads.

hensylee

March 29th, 2005, 08:24 PM

And he will return it. Thanks - I was wondrin.

gadgetman

March 29th, 2005, 08:30 PM

Thanks for the link, Ross.

Since a lot of folks have tuned out to the Schiavo thread, I wanted to take a minute to say I am sorry for my part in making it unpleasant. I did not intend to do so and I realize I got carried away and should have stopped sooner (or not started at all). Please accept my heartfelt apology. :o :o :o

I dropped out of that Thread weeks ago. For losing control you have to put your fingers in your pockets or sit on your hands for 15 minutes--starting now. That's like telling (no--asking) a woman to keep her mouth shut :D . Ooop!!! Hope I didn't start something.

hensylee,

Your comment "sex has been mentioned twice in this thread. Now that's a good subject. And fit for small talk." What is this reference to "small" :mad: ? You trying to start something too :D .

May God Bless,

Danny

geebee

March 29th, 2005, 08:46 PM

It's been 15 minutes. Can I get off my hands now? Oops, I am typing so I MUST be off my hands.

Thanks Danny :)

Ross

March 29th, 2005, 08:49 PM

Well you've all heard me preach now and I got it out of my system, so it's up to all of you to help make the changes. With that, I go back to my hole in the wall, curl up in the fetal position and resume sucking my thumb.

hensylee

March 29th, 2005, 09:18 PM

Too late Rain! It came in my email. :p You could write for 'you might be a redneck'. :D

Danny - 'small' - 'large' - I can't remember. I am old!

Debrinha GT

March 29th, 2005, 09:57 PM

Well, since I'm still to meet a person who doesn't like talking about sex, here it goes! Guess what I'll be doing on April17th? It's my wedding aniversay and Robert and I will have been married for twenty years!! LOL!! That's a hard one, eh?!! LOL!!
Débora :D

BionicRedneck

March 29th, 2005, 09:57 PM

Too late Rain! It came in my email. :p You could write for 'you might be a redneck'. :D

Danny - 'small' - 'large' - I can't remember. I am old!

Id like to apply for the job of Redneck Writer. This pertains to Rednecks, Heart Surgeries, and Hand Held Urinals. I can imagine what kind of image yall have of this. I see a Doped up Redneck after surgery in his room beating down Nurses with his urinal. NO, couldnt be the farthest from the truth.

Well the 18 days I was incarcerated, incapictated I mean, Feb 14 came around. My dad and sis had to treck to Lufkin because he was fixing to have to head back overseas to work. Dad stopped and seen the Top of the Line Florists at Wal-Mart and got mom a dozen roses. They were very pretty and good quality. Well there seemed to be a shortage of vases lying around the Hospital so we used the next best thing. When you came in my room you were greeted by a dozen roses in water stuffed in a hand held urinal. Mind your this one was unused and brand new. Many people would walk in and just bust out laughing. Surprisingly they lived in the urinal for almost 2 weeks I think. Now that isnt getto that is Country Redneck.I toted them proudly out of the the front doors of The Methodist.

knightfan2691

March 29th, 2005, 10:08 PM

Feelings have been hurt, people are mad at one another, and the list goes on.

Grrr....hate when this happens. This is a major reason why I avoid those so-called controversial threads. Plus, I just don't have enough time, given the amount of message boards/clubs of which I am a member....

*shrugs*

I've seen my share of arguments deteriorate into a black whole of hatred towards others. Frankly, I'm tired of people bickering among themselves, hurling insults/accusations/mean words to each other & generally treating others like crap (I avoided a much worse word)...and letting companies get away with murder.

*sighs*

Ah, well.... People will be people...and there will always be all sorts of discussions on any given topic...and, of course, views and hypothesis and opinions and such. That's the nature of life. If we all thought the same, it would really be boring. (Although, I suspect, that would mean that Chevrolet would actually be producing Malibus, Monte Carlos and Impalas these days....and, perhaps, just perhaps, the Cubs might've won the World Series by now. Yeah, I know...I'm a dreamin' again :(....)

*grins devilishly*

Now, about that sex topic.... I say it's no good unless I get some this time....

;)

Cort, "Mr MC" / "Mr Road Trip", 31swm/pig valve/pacemaker
'72,6,9/'81,7.hobbies.chdQB = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/
MC Guide = http://www.chevyasylum.com/mcspotter/main.html
MC's future = http://www.projectmonte.com/petition/
To buy Dodge Charger or to buy Ford Mustang...THAT is the Q
"Most Complete Lineup," Chevy claims in ad ... but how?
What's it like to buy your favorite car brand new? Wish I knew...

hensylee

March 29th, 2005, 10:09 PM

Gotta get one of those new vases! That's the best laugh I've had all day. I can just picture it. Where did you put it once you got it home? Another laugh is due, I'll bet.

Deborah - didn't you just go on a honeymoon? Oh, just remembered, that was your birthday. You goin to another hotel - with flowers and candles?

Cort, your time is coming. You may have to go cruisin in the right places, tho.

knightfan2691

March 29th, 2005, 10:15 PM

Cort, your time is coming. You may have to go cruisin in the right places, tho.

He he he....any idea where those might be? ;)

Hmm...remember, I'll be coming out east this coming August...coming through Georgia en route to Charlotte NC....

hensylee

March 29th, 2005, 10:21 PM

Cort, Georgia is magic and could be your lucky state. Ever see any of those Georgia peaches in their own environment?

Missy

March 29th, 2005, 11:22 PM

I am the one that started the Terry Schiavo thread. I did not mean for it too be this contraversial. I simply wanted to know how others felt about it.

I think of this site as different than other sites where one can chat or message. For one thing we all have kind of got to know each other even though some of us have never met. Some have. I respect the opinions of the members on here even when they don't agree with me. I have received to much valuable information and too much caring attention to not have a high regard for the very people I am depending on to help me through the hard times as they did though the hardest time I have ever faced. You were all there for me.

So just because I started the thread doesn't mean I wanted this to happen.

Please everyone, remember who we are. For me the rest of you are my support group and what your opinion is about Terry Schiavo has no bearing on my real reason for being a member of this site.

Thanks Hank and Ross for the wonderful job that you do and for closing the thead.

All any of us needed was an opinion and we more than got that.

knightfan2691

March 30th, 2005, 01:54 AM

Cort, Georgia is magic and could be your lucky state. Ever see any of those Georgia peaches in their own environment?

*shakes head*

Nope....but, I will in August!

*grins innocently*

Debrinha GT

March 30th, 2005, 06:00 AM

Hensy, I really appreciate the good life, and when I said I would live life to its fullest, I meant it!! LOL!! We're still making up for lost time! As well as that, with my fourth MVR on its way, I don't know how things will turn out so, since I'm still in pretty good shape, I want to remain active for as long as I can before having to take a break! LOL!! Hopefuly not retire! LOL!!
Débora :D

Wise

March 30th, 2005, 11:43 AM

*grins innocently*

Is that a baptist thing, "grinning innocently"? You can't fool us. We know all your "babies" are only chick magnets. Not that there's anything wrong with that, mind you. Unless of course you're me and married as I am. Now we in the Christian church, grin smugly, but we're actually bigger sinners that you baptist, hands down. For instance, I've almost gotten run over trying to get in or out of the church parking lot, and I drive a Chevy Trailblazer (which isn't a magnet of any type). So, if you're "cruising", for the mere pleasure of it we know, then you must not be speeding. Go figure, Mr. Monte Carlo is slower than those middle-aged mercedes drivers on their way to church. I'm in a good mood this morning I guess. This is all meant in jest, Cort, especially since I've never had a e-conversation with you. BTW, I grew up in northern Indiana where classic chevys seem to be very popular. My brother-in-law and nephew have always been into the Malibu, which is of course distinctly different from the Caribou.

Barry

March 30th, 2005, 11:47 AM

As I had stated in the opening post of the thread on gun-control, I'm curious about what folks on these forums think about a number of pressing issues facing the USA: Accordingly, I'd also asked about what folks think about drug-control policies on street drugs, asked for an international perspective from folks from other countries on illegal immigration. There's other stuff I'm curious about folks' opinions on, too.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar: My motive for bringing that stuff up is precisely what I said my motive was. I have a tendency to pontificate, so I generally would give only a brief overview of my own opinion. Precisely the way I would begin a conversation with someone on a controversial topic.

But I really wasn't trying to start any trouble, and I really am not a troll. I guess this is just the wrong place to solicit opinions on controversial topics unrelated to heart valve replacement. Too bad, because the folks here generally are more mature and well-informed than you'll find at most forums - and accordingly their opinions tend to be more mature and well-informed.

I'm a bit uncertain how to proceed - I just checked the gun-control and street-drug threads and it didn't see any problems going on in them, hadn't devolved into flame-wars, nobody using these forums to encourage or abet illegal activities. One person noted that the topic is boring to them, and I see no problem with that - not every topic is going to be scintillating to everyone and best way to deal with threads with boring topics would seem to be to simply not read them.

Freedom of speech isn't really an issue here in my opinion, at least not in any constitutional sense. The First Amendment protects us from government interference in expression of free speech, but this is a private forum - the government isn't involved. So the First Amendment is irrelevant to the issue. The owners/administrators here can restrict what's said here in any manner they choose - just as any of us are free to establish house rules that certain topics are forbidden subjects of conversation in our own homes.

Now, it hasn't happened in any of the threads that I had started - I don't think - but apparantly has happened in the Schiavo thread from what I read in this thread (I haven't yet read the Schiavo thread today), but...

A separate issue is threads becoming flame wars, in which forum members address one another very harshly, even rudely and insultingly. To my way of thinking, even were one free to talk about any topic at all, one still has the obligation to always be civil about it. Civil discourse on difficult topics is exceptionally interesting, and that the members of these forums tend to be mature and well-informed would, I should think, make flaming one another a very very rare event. I guess it's not a separate issue - it's precisely for that reason that I thought this would be a good place for civil discussion of controversial subjects, subjects that at many other forums would rapidly devolve into flame wars. Anyway, there's no excuse for rudeness, and I do hope folks will be civil to one another around here: I think we really can "all get along" so long as we're polite and civil to one another.

Nancy

March 30th, 2005, 11:57 AM

Quetlin-

Please don't quit either. Your viewpoints have given me much to think about both from the medical standpoint to more recent Small Talk issues. The Terri Schiavo situation is one that can make us all way too emotional.

So come back, be friends and stay. I'd love to hear how you're doing and how Maia is doing as well. Haven't mentioned her in a long, long time, so I guess she's doing well.

Your friend,

Nancy

tommy

March 30th, 2005, 01:32 PM

gadgetman

March 30th, 2005, 02:00 PM

Wow!!!! Still got my head attached :D I think!!!!

I had to drop off last night because I "HAD" to get up early for my first Physical Therapy Appointment. So I'll try to be brief on the recent comments (me brief!!!! :rolleyes: ).

geebee,

Glad you served your "time out" properly. Really didn't keep a clock on you--we use the honor system here :D .

Ross,

You couldn't quit "type talking" even if they (who is "they" :confused: ) broke all your fingers. You would find a way (maybe with your nose--not going to address other body parts :D in trying to stay away from the "SEX" theme.

hensylee,

Ain't NOBODY that OLD :D :D :D

deboraginastewart,

You had better learn to pace yourself and not "use it up" so to speak. Must be that great air down there.

BionicRedneck,

Had a good laugh about the "vase" tale :) . But gotta ask whut is wrong with Wally World flowers. Sure you gotta pick thru to find a few good ones but they have saved my a** a few times with the little woman. One stop shopping--I'm all fer it. Take it from someone who knows all to well----don't ever forget an anniversary!!!!!!! :eek:

Missy,

Don't feel bad about starting the "Terri" thread. As long as we can keep the leash on "Barry" we'll survive this little spat.

knightfan2691,

?????????????????????????? :D This old country boy can't follow them big thoughts too good. Did understand the SEX, SEX, SEX. Looked at your driving plans earlier--you ain't coming fer enough South (actually Middle GA) to drop in. And be careful how you "pick" them Gerga Peaches--I picked mine over 37 years ago and she ain't gone bad on me yet. Just keep the Air Conditioner turned up in the Summer and the Heat turned down in the Winter.

Quetlin,

As a newbee here on VR.com I (and others) hope we have not driven you away (IS HE LOOKING THIS WAY???? :) ) for the second time. The "family" is still here to listen to the vents, rants, laugh with you (or about you sometime :D ), cry with you or offer a shoulder, provide advice or encouragement, and "just be there" sometimes. By the way, had a friend of mine that changed his E-Mail address every week. Said he had one for family and close friends but NEVER used that when going online. Haven't got that worried yet :confused:. Guess that will come back to bite me one day.

wise smith,

As an old "stick in the mud" Southern Baptist, I can identify with that "run over feeling". Don't ever get between a Baptist and FOOD. Most of ours are hurrying to get to the local eatery before the rest of the Churches :D .

Barry (the stick stirrer :D ),

Most of your topics are interesting and enlightening. Stay there and continue to "type" to the enjoyment of us all. Have to admit, we've had some good "Dinner Conversations" around the table lately. As a voluteer Fireman, I (along with Ross and others) will attempt to put out or dampen any flames you start. It is obvious you don't require a "lighter" :D .

Nancy,

I sure hope Quetlin doesn't leave either. Each one of us here has something to offer, either been there-done that, or giving support and a calming effect to someone facing what some of us have been through. I sure hope it wasn't anything I "typed". Unfortunately, as the memory of what we went through fades and we find we can enjoy life again we all drift off. Some quicker than others (no Ross this is not my swan (or is that Swann) song). I'll continue to type as long as y'all let me.

Guess that covers it. Hope so, my hands hurt :D . So,

See Y'all Around the Dinner Table and May God Bless,

Danny

gadgetman

March 30th, 2005, 02:08 PM

I get bummed seeing my family argue about stuff that is not relevant or necessary. :( :( :( Eventually we argue about arguing. :mad: :mad: :mad: I'm not a big fan of posts going off topic, but when the posts got off this topic and started talking about sex, I cheered up. :D :D :D

Danny, that nurse was getting "it" less than you. :cool: ;) :rolleyes:

Somebody once said "you would start an argument just to hear yourself talk" and they weren't talking about me :o :o :o . Guess that holds true for "types" too.

Don't know, she :confused: ? looked very happy while she tore up my form :D . Now back to that sex thing :D :D :D :D HELLO!!!!!!!?????????

May God Bless,

Danny

Wise

March 30th, 2005, 02:19 PM

gadgetman

March 30th, 2005, 02:42 PM

[QUOTE=gadgetman]
wise smith,

As an old "stick in the mud" Southern Baptist, I can identify with that "run over feeling". Don't ever get between a Baptist and FOOD. Most of ours are hurrying to get to the local eatery before the rest of the Churches :D .

LOL...you know I forgot about that one. A buffet may be more dangerous than driving now that I think about it. (Actually some of the best folks I know are baptists, not that they wouldn't kill you over food though).

Growing up in a Southern Baptist environment gave me some great training in "throwing elbows" in basketball. Had to just about "fight" your way to get to the "good stuff", especially those "pot luck" suppers after service :D . For people who can be somewhat reserved during service they sure "come alive" when around FOOD. And as for those baptist friends, they just let you think that to hide the fact that they are trying to get you to convert :D .

May God Bless,

Danny

Wise

March 30th, 2005, 02:53 PM

[QUOTE=gadgetman]
Growing up in a Southern Baptist environment gave me some great training in "throwing elbows" in basketball. Had to just about "fight" your way to get to the "good stuff", especially those "pot luck" suppers after service :D . For people who can be somewhat reserved during service they sure "come alive" when around FOOD. And as for those baptist friends, they just let you think that to hide the fact that they are trying to get you to convert :D .

Come to think of it, the most influential southern baptist I knew was a payroll manager. She was a tough cookie, I'll tell you. But, she always seemed to "convert" us in the personnel office I worked in. Convert us, as to her way of thinking, i.e., what to do at office gatherings, what gift to buy the boss, where to eat special office meals, etc. I guess she must've been the ultimate southern baptist because she weighed probably close to 300 lbs. She has since backslid and lost a whole lot of weight. This lady was my biggest (no pun intended) advocate, other than my wife, during some very rough periods in my life. But, she'd also be the first in line to kick my you know what...and that wouldn't have been pretty. Sorry for the bunny trail, but you got me thinking.

Barry

March 30th, 2005, 03:17 PM

Barry (the stick stirrer :D ),

Most of your topics are interesting and enlightening. Stay there and continue to "type" to the enjoyment of us all. Have to admit, we've had some good "Dinner Conversations" around the table lately. As a voluteer Fireman, I (along with Ross and others) will attempt to put out or dampen any flames you start. It is obvious you don't require a "lighter" :D .

If I start flames, I actually would very much appreciate feedback from you, Ross, and others.

I guess I've got a somewhat different perspective than many others on contentious topics, don't find them inherently annoying. In fact, I find them generally entertaining: I very much enjoy civil enlightened discussion of controversial topics. But I also very much loathe disrespectful arguments about any topic. I enjoy participating in the Debating Team, but find flame wars to be annoying, tedious, and fundamentally disheartening.

You know, one of the tragedies of the 60's I think is that it was then that Americans seemed to have lost the ability to speak with one another respectfully about things they passionately disagreed about. I'm hoping we've re-learned how to do it.

gadgetman

March 30th, 2005, 04:05 PM

Barry,

When I was in the military I had a guy (this is where the watercooler tie in came from) who worked for me. He would always come into a group, no matter who was there, drop a "bomb" on some "HOT" subject, then drop back and watch the fireworks. When a fistfight almost broke out over one of his "bombs" :eek: I finally had to talk to him and ask him to lighten up somewhat. He seemed to be more careful about the nature of his "bombs" after then :) .

Hope you wasn't in the Military. If so, remember me??????? :D

May God Bless,

Danny

Nancy

March 30th, 2005, 05:06 PM

Most of the time this isn't a flame-throwing group.

I think we all have too many medical fires to put out to want to engage in yet more firey things. Anxiety happens quite frequently here without any other outside help.

But it is really refreshing to enjoy some fun and diversions that take our minds off the very, very serious stuff that goes on every day.

And another thing--we all value life and respect what we have to do to stay alive. It's mighty hard work, not only for the person with the medical problems but for their loved ones as well.

Barry

March 30th, 2005, 05:39 PM

Hope you wasn't in the Military.

Yep, I was in the military. One of the more absurd instances of bad judgment and ironic turn of circumstance in my life.

1968 and I lose my student deferrment, get called in for my pre-induction physical. I was very much opposed to the Vietnam War on political grounds. But political opposition doesn't qualify one for Conscientious Objector status, I didn't have the physical courage to go to prision as a war resistor, nor did I have the moral courage to go to Canada as a draft dodger.

I'd noticed at various dams that there was always a sign saying "US Army Corps of Engineers", so I decided that I would enlist for Engineers and stay stateside and kill rivers instead of going overseas to kill Vietnamese.

Got in Engineers. One slight problem - then got assigned to a Combat Engineers batallion. And in the same year as the Tet Offensive!

In retrospect I find it kinda funny. I was just a kid, and my harebrained idea for how to deal with the prospect of getting drafted to fight a war I didn't believe in backfired on me entirely.

So that was you who was always hanging out by the water cooler in the motor pool?

McCln

March 30th, 2005, 06:15 PM

I have been on boards that all it takes is one innocent word or statement and everyone gets offensive or abusive. We all have the right to an opinion, but we are clinical, because we are trying to under all the medical jargon and procedures and surgeries. It is hard to understand the changes and medical treatments. I had to say something. We are here to make friends, not enemies. We all get along here and blow off steam at times. Just don't get to carried away. Keep coming in and giving your opinion. We need to share our smart minds here.

gadgetman

March 30th, 2005, 06:42 PM

Yep, I was in the military. One of the more absurd instances of bad judgment and ironic turn of circumstance in my life.

1968 and I lose my student deferrment, get called in for my pre-induction physical. I was very much opposed to the Vietnam War on political grounds. But political opposition doesn't qualify one for Conscientious Objector status, I didn't have the physical courage to go to prision as a war resistor, nor did I have the moral courage to go to Canada as a draft dodger.

I'd noticed at various dams that there was always a sign saying "US Army Corps of Engineers", so I decided that I would enlist for Engineers and stay stateside and kill rivers instead of going overseas to kill Vietnamese.

Got in Engineers. One slight problem - then got assigned to a Combat Engineers batallion. And in the same year as the Tet Offensive!

In retrospect I find it kinda funny. I was just a kid, and my harebrained idea for how to deal with the prospect of getting drafted to fight a war I didn't believe in backfired on me entirely.

So that was you who was always hanging out by the water cooler in the motor pool?

Entered the military in 67 while facing the draft. Never was an objector but just didn't like the idea of someone trying to kill me. Got a heads up that I was going to be drafted. I contacted my half-brother (17 years older than me) who was in the Air Force at the time (he wound up doing a tour of Vietnam by the way). I asked him for advice. He said if you want to get your 2 years over with, hope you survive, and never look back let the Army draft you. He also said I would probably show up in a rice patty some where??? But if I wanted to get something I might be able to use after I got out go into the Air Force or Navy because they would at least train me to do something beside carry a weapon. Didn't think I would like ship duty so I joined the Air Force. Guam is as close as I ever got to Vietnam. Didn't break my heart at all.

I was a Radio Operator while in Guam (thought I would be safe as an operator--they didn't have to go out in the field). Came back to the states then went to Germany where things ended before I returned. It turned out to be a good think. Army was running out of radio operators and were "drafting" AF and Navy operators to go out with Army units. The thought of walking around with a big antenna sticking up saying "shoot me" scared the heck out of me.

Never was at a watercooler in a motor pool, only went there to pick up a vehicle and get right out.

May God Bless,

Danny

Barry

March 30th, 2005, 06:51 PM

gadgetman, close call: Yep, there's a reason why the Army was running out of radio operators. Glad you made it through OK.

Granbonny

March 30th, 2005, 06:54 PM

Gosh, I have not been posting now for many days because our member from "Down Under" posted on his drug thread that we old timers :eek: should go back to our knitting and cake decorating.. :D :D So, I have knitted 3 sweaters and baked and decorated 3 cakes. :p :p :p ..and stayed out of these odd threads not relating to Valve replacement. :D :D :D But, I see my best friend and avatar buddy, Ann posting..so I guess it is safe. :D ..I care not to post about drugs or guns.....my son was accepted into our local sheriff's Department when he was only age 20.... Fifteen years later and now a very gray-haired Mom..he has served on everything in the Law Enforcement..from their Red Dog division..(Ridding every drug dealer out of Georgia)Being the one that kicked the doors down. :eek: :eek: Head of the local dive team..diving for drowned victims in our large lake near Atlanta ( Lake Lanier)..to now being a hostage negotiator ( I know most of you saw what happened in Atlanta a few weeks ago. Well, he was right in it. :eek: and I was glued to the T,V, not knowing, if he may be the next one shot by that killer.... :eek: :eek: I have to live everyday..knowing that he is putting himself in danger..to save kidswith guns ( many times he's had to mace them from keeping them from killing themselves..( and then going to court pleading with the Judge to keep them from the hard jails)..on his own..no pay.. :) :) :) so..I need not read the threads about :what do you think about drugs and guns)..AND I don't.... Oh, well, back to my knitting and cake decorating... :D :D Bonnie

geebee

March 30th, 2005, 07:10 PM

Bonnie,

You are so funny. I wish I had spent the last few days knitting so I would have stayed out of trouble but, stubborn Taurus person that I am, I did not.

Please say thanks to your son for me. People like him are the reasons we can all sleep easier.

Granbonny

March 30th, 2005, 07:15 PM

I have MANY friends on V.R. com that know, that I have helped raise my son's age now 12 year old son...He has had him since age 2 weeks...Well, he's (grandson) is on spring Break and staying with me this week. Yesterday, he called his Dad on mobile phone to tell him about catching a large Bass in our Lake. Dad told him great and that he was on a call and would call him later. After, he (grandson) hung up.. He (Grandson said to me..I hate my daddy is a policeman.. :( :( :( and I had to tell him, NOT to worry....Nothing will happen to your Daddy...He's now at the age that sees things happen on T.V... :eek: :eek: :eek: When he was younger..he loved when his Dad came to pick him up with all the gadgets on him..but, now...he knows the danger. :eek: :eek: Bonnie

Mary

March 30th, 2005, 07:17 PM

This is meant as a group hug so we can all get back on track. ;)

Karlynn

March 30th, 2005, 07:41 PM

:D Bonnie, could you send me one of the cakes. :D Pretty please? :D

I know a bit of how you feel. One of my older cousins lived with us when I was in Jr. High and went to college. He became like a brother. He graduated and promptly entered a police force. Then he became an undercover narcotics officer, then a homicide detective, and has been an undercover narcotics officer again, for the last 10 years. I worry about him all the time (He is a narc in a large town close to the Mexican border.) Thankfully he will be retiring soon.

Kids give us gray hair to begin with, apparently your son thought you might look good in gray and decided to see that it happened fast than normal. Please pass along my appreciation for his service.

Granbonny

March 30th, 2005, 08:21 PM

Most of you may not know..but, Mary is a very dedicated..teacher.. :) Teaching in a school ..where a lot of children are family deprived..she helps them everyday... :) like my son..who is trying to find a better place for our children in this world.... :) Mary is also a wonderful wife, Mother and Grandmother. :) :) and best of all. a GREAT friend to me... :) :) so..hugs back to her.. :) :) :) One of the main reasons..I'm hanging around..is that Mary has NOT had Valve replacement yet...and I will be here for her and others who will be coming on..Everyday..asking about their fears, ect.... This is why Hank started this great website... :) Small talk is here for people wishing Happy Birthdays, ect... posting pictures of family..other than those. this old timer never gets involves... :p Bonnie

Mary

March 30th, 2005, 08:31 PM

Bonnie,
Thank you for the very nice comments. I'm so thankful that I've made many wonderful friends on the site, and you in particular!
This is for you!

Ross

March 30th, 2005, 08:32 PM

Bonnie,
Thank you for the very nice comments. I'm so thankful that I've made many wonderful friends on the site, and you in particular!
This is for you!
Hey where did you get that? The attachment that is?

Mary

March 30th, 2005, 08:34 PM

Hey where did you get that? The attachment that is?
How much is it worth for you to know?????????????? :D :D
I'm open to negotiations or bribery ;) ;) ;) ;)

knightfan2691

March 31st, 2005, 12:23 AM

*grins innocently*

Is that a baptist thing, "grinning innocently"? You can't fool us. We know all your "babies" are only chick magnets.

If that were true, I wouldn't be single :(.

Now we in the Christian church, grin smugly, but we're actually bigger sinners that you baptist, hands down.

Interesting..... I'm, actually, Church of the Brethren...christian....

For instance, I've almost gotten run over trying to get in or out of the church parking lot, and I drive a Chevy Trailblazer (which isn't a magnet of any type).

LOL! Ya never know ;).

So, if you're "cruising", for the mere pleasure of it we know, then you must not be speeding. Go figure, Mr. Monte Carlo is slower than those middle-aged mercedes drivers on their way to church.

LOL! So very true...very very very true ;).

I'm in a good mood this morning I guess. This is all meant in jest, Cort, especially since I've never had a e-conversation with you.

I wondered :). Glad that you are (or at least were) in a good mood :).

BTW, I grew up in northern Indiana where classic chevys seem to be very popular. My brother-in-law and nephew have always been into the Malibu, which is of course distinctly different from the Caribou.

That it is.... Have any pics of that Malibu, by chance?

knightfan2691,

?????????????????????????? :D This old country boy can't follow them big thoughts too good. Did understand the SEX, SEX, SEX. Looked at your driving plans earlier--you ain't coming fer enough South (actually Middle GA) to drop in. And be careful how you "pick" them Gerga Peaches--I picked mine over 37 years ago and she ain't gone bad on me yet. Just keep the Air Conditioner turned up in the Summer and the Heat turned down in the Winter.

He he he....I'll keep that advice in mind...thank ya ;).

Yeah know...you could always drive up north to meet me...just some food for thought ;).

hensylee

March 31st, 2005, 08:36 AM

Wise, Cort's our official car guy. Just ask, he knows 'em all, drives 'em all.

Debora - you go, girl.

Bon - I love all your posts. You have a unique gift, you know.

as all Baptists know, Baptists are either fussin or eatin.

Wise

March 31st, 2005, 09:14 AM

Cort, sorry, I thought you were a baptist for some reason. Must have been lightheaded that day.

No, I don't have a pic of brother-in-law and nephew's cars. I will see if I can get one, though. They live in Knox, Indiana. Yes, I know, you don't know where that is. It's is a little south of South Bend, about a 45 minute drive. That's my original hometown.

Just heard this morning that Coach Weber served as assistant coach at Purdue for 18 years before his 5 years with Southern Illinois. He's had some good experience and apparently has honed his craft well. Go fighting Illini!!

gadgetman

March 31st, 2005, 12:11 PM

Bonnie,

I wear an "Extra Large" but it is getting too warm for a sweater. Can't have too much cake (unless it's sugar free).

Ross,

Be careful of that attachment Mary posted. If you look real close you will notice their "middle finger" is extended :eek: .

knightfan2691,

I could follow that post (you kept the words at "eight grade" level). Thanks :) :) . And me go to Atlanta--ain't no way this here country boy is going to the "big city". I'd be like Dorthory in Emerald City, "I WANT TO GO HOME, I WANT TO GO HOME". Anyway I'd have to take down the Gun Rack in the Pick-m-up truck and leave the dogs at home. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Car Guys, don't they have a car web site for all that "Junk". I'll have to get mine off blocks before I take a picture. :D

May God Bless,

Danny

knightfan2691

March 31st, 2005, 11:09 PM

Wise, Cort's our official car guy. Just ask, he knows 'em all, drives 'em all.

Hmm...I don't know about drivin' them all....

*grins devilishly*

I do have my standards, ya know ;). LOL!

Cort, sorry, I thought you were a baptist for some reason.

NO need to apologize!!!! No worries ;).

No, I don't have a pic of brother-in-law and nephew's cars. I will see if I can get one, though.

*shakes head*

I can't imagine not having a pic of cars....he he he. I'd be interested to see it, if indeed you can get one :).

They live in Knox, Indiana. Yes, I know, you don't know where that is. It's is a little south of South Bend, about a 45 minute drive. That's my original hometown.

Hmmm...how far north of RT 30 is that? I went to college at Manchester College....

Just heard this morning that Coach Weber served as assistant coach at Purdue for 18 years before his 5 years with Southern Illinois. He's had some good experience and apparently has honed his craft well. Go fighting Illini!!

AMEN!!!!!!

I could follow that post (you kept the words at "eight grade" level). Thanks. And me go to Atlanta--ain't no way this here country boy is going to the "big city". I'd be like Dorthory in Emerald City, "I WANT TO GO HOME, I WANT TO GO HOME". Anyway I'd have to take down the Gun Rack in the Pick-m-up truck and leave the dogs at home.

LOL! Well, we don't have to meet in Atlanta...I'm sure there are other towns along my route :).

Car Guys, don't they have a car web site for all that "Junk". I'll have to get mine off blocks before I take a picture.

*raises eyebrow suspiciously*

Junk? Many websites/forums/clubs are dedicated to cars ;). These are just several of my many interests...he he he.

Hmmm....just what do you have, anyway?

*awaits answer patiently*